Week 21 - ATP 250 - Dusseldorf (Clay)

indiana · Tennis legend

RE: Week 21 - ATP 250 - Dusseldorf (Clay)

indiana · Tennis legend

Re in general, dealing with pressure points, I do wonder if there has ever been any analysis re how Brits as against others deal with pressure points / games.

I think there may be a danger of recalling close losses and ones that got away more than the ones turned around and won ( or just think that for no logical reason Brits are more wimpy than others ). I'd certainly say that there have been many pressure wins in the last year for British players, both men and women.

That's not to say that associations and players should not be open to help that can be given to help concentrate the mind and deal with pressure.

RJA · Hall of fame

I really am reluctant to read too much into pressure moments based on watching a match on live scores. We have no way of knowing what happened on those points. When Ward had 0-40 at 5-4* in the third the points went by very quickly so either it was very good serving, poor returning or an element of both. Without having watched we can't really judge.

Spectator · All-time great

Given that Mr Ward was playing someone ranked just outside the top 100 and managed nearly to win the match, I think I would tend more towards encouragement than towards dejection. Or, to put it differently, I think it was a superb day for Mr Ward and hope that he takes encouragement from this to move up a level occasionally and see what he can do.

korriban · Challenger level

I'm into encouragement just like the next person, and I'm sure there are many positives to be drawn from most defeats, especially to better players, today being no different. But I suspect the top 200-500 is full of players who "nearly" beat higher ranked players many many times, playing well, but not winning the last point. "180s for show, doubles for dough" I think is the expression in darts.

I think we may have to agree to disagree that this was a "superb day" for Alex Ward. In tennis, there's one winner and one loser, and he lost a match in which he appeared to have played well enough to win. Alex had a 4-1 lead in set 1, in which he lost the next 5 games; and had 4 Match Points which he also didn't take.

Tennis is a brutal sport!!

Spectator · All-time great

If Mr Ward were ranked in the 200s, habitually played at this level and habitually lost matches in this fashion, one might worry. But he isn't and he doesn't. Yes, he probably should have won the match. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if the surprise of being about to beat someone far more highly ranked (and in an ATP level tournament) kicked in. He hasn't done that in a while - this would have been his best showing since Nottingham in 2010. (I don't count the win by retirement). Interestingly, looking over his playing record before writing this post, he has quite a good showing against higher ranked players when he has played qualifiers; a few more challengers/ATP qualies might not be a bad idea.

At any rate, I'm much more inclined to think that the positive for him - that, following not his best year ever, he can still be competitive with a top player - is far more significant than the fact that he actually didn't quite get over the finish line. So yes, agree to disagree.

wolf · Tennis legend

R1: (1) Colin Fleming & Jonny Marray v (WC) Dustin Brown & Frank Moser (GER/GER)
R1: Jamie Murray & John Peers (AUS) v Christopher Kas & Oliver Marach (GER/AUT)
R1: (3) Treat Huey (PHI) & Dominic Inglot v Philipp Marx & Florin Mergea (GER/ROU)
R1: Tomasz Bednarek (POL) & Jamie Delgado v Daniel Brands & Igor Sijsling (GER/NED)

The winners of the top two and the bottom two matches play each other in the second round, with the winners of those matches playing each other in the semis. So it's guaranteed a German or a Brit will make the final.

korriban · Challenger level

indiana wrote:
Oh, a little humble pie might re the dismissal of Alex after the first set may still of been in order LOL.

You are quite right! I expected him to lose quickly, whereas he appears to have been the better of the 2 players in both set 2 and set 3, before losing. I'm delighted and encouraged by the fact he was competitive and should have won at this level, and I hope Alex is too.....but only if he analyses to death with his coach what he needs to next time he faces a similar situation, and executes a different approach to crossing the line.

Everything about the scoreline suggests Alex must have played well when he had nothing to lose, but things changed dramatically when he had something to lose. Which could mean there's a big opportunity for improvement on the mental side. I saw this happen last year between Marsalek and Donskoy, where the better player changed the way they were playing as they approached the winning post.....and lost. There are many days when pros are simply outclassed by superior opposition, so its even more important to come through on days where everything is working well.

But overall I'm excited that we had 3 boys competing in an ATP and, in general, putting on a good show. More of the above please.

indiana · Tennis legend

Hmm, maybe korriban, though there was maybe rather less to Alex's loss than meets your eye, and he perhaps rather more just lost a hard fought match with a few swings.

4-1* up in first set with one break, 4 MPs against the serve, all of which passed quickly and a DF at MP down is to me not enough to be as definitive as you when we haven't seen any of the proceedings.

You say that "Everything about the scoreline suggests that Alex must have..." - no must have about it, just more a possible reading about the proceedings and of course there was an opponent whose game may have changed too.

Yes, he and his coach should certainly consider how he lost the match, and he may have had real issues when in some better positions, but the 4-1 and 4 MPs are far from clear about this to us outsiders.

Anyway, I just think you may be theorising a bit overmuch here from scoreline info.

RJA · Hall of fame

indiana wrote:
Anyway, I just think you may be theorising a bit overmuch here from scoreline info.

Certainly true.

We really have no idea what the match was like. For all we know Alex might not even have played well. Pella could have been absolutely rubbish for most of the match but just stepped it up at the key moments. We simply don't know.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Jamie's doubles is underway, although 3-1 to the others in the first set at the moment.

RJA · Hall of fame

Jamie and partner lost 2 and 4.

Jamie desperately needs to find some form. Between now and the US open he defends around 70% of his points so his ranking could easily plummet. If that happens we might be seeing Jamie's long career drawing draw to a close.

korriban · Challenger level

RJA wrote:
Jamie and partner lost 2 and 4.

Jamie desperately needs to find some form. Between now and the US open he defends around 70% of his points so his ranking could easily plummet. If that happens we might be seeing Jamie's long career drawing draw to a close.

I agree with you. But a lot of people on this forum argue that you aren't really allowed to comment on someone's form or how well or badly they might be playing from livescores alone. After all Jamie might have played out of his skin and been let down by his partner, or the opponents might have had a blinder. "We simply don't know".

Now, hold on a minute..............

wink

RJA · Hall of fame

korriban wrote:
RJA wrote:
Jamie and partner lost 2 and 4.

Jamie desperately needs to find some form. Between now and the US open he defends around 70% of his points so his ranking could easily plummet. If that happens we might be seeing Jamie's long career drawing draw to a close.
I agree with you. But a lot of people on this forum argue that you aren't really allowed to comment on someone's form or how well or badly they might be playing from livescores alone. After all Jamie might have played out of his skin and been let down by his partner, or the opponents might have had a blinder. "We simply don't know".
Now, hold on a minute..............

Touche

However, I am not judging Jamie's performance based from following his match on live scores (I didn't follow it anyway). I am noting that his record this year has been very poor and that his ranking could drop massively over the summer.

korriban · Challenger level

That's OK then! biggrin

Wasn't trying to be narky, just a bit of fun! Seems you took it in the way I meant it, so thank you for being a good sport!