Week 21 - Egypt F8 - ($10,000) - Sharm El Sheikh (clay)

korriban · Challenger level

RE: Week 21 - Egypt F8 - ($10,000) - Sharm El Sheikh (clay)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Thanks very much for that , Bob in Spain. Very interesting.

Personally, I think it's an excellent idea.

I've heard (in interviews and first-hand) several Futures players say that, when they went to Challenger and ATP tournaments, they were absolutely gobsmacked, blown away, by the level. Not of the tennis as such, but the level of the professionalism.
They didn;t mean that they, or the others, had been 'unprofessional' on the Futures circuit. But simply that the step up in seriousness, application, approach etc. etc., by the players, the coaches, the staff, everybody, was amazing.
This is what players need to see. It sets an example, raises the bar. Many (most) top 500 players have the tennis level to play top 200, or better, but they need to learn the 'métier',as the French keep saying, i.e. they need to learn the 'trade' of playing top professional tennis, how it is actually done on a day-to-day basis.

This is one reason, IMHO, why the LTA is wrong not to have more Challengers in the UK - it's not about who wins the points this year, it's about making it easy for British players to see and experience that level of competition and learn what it entails.

Thanks again for the link.

Bob the Ball Boy · Junior player

was about to write a fairly similar post to coup droit but he beat me to it... the point of getting this type of exposure isn't to improve your forehand or backhand, it's just to feel more comfortable on the senior 'tour' so that when they push on to challengers and higher they feel like they belong and deserve to be there- which hopefully tackles nerves and other mental setbacks some players might experience.

follows from the exact same analysis mentioned above re 'many of the top 500 players have the tennis level to play top 200'- seeing that they can compete with these higher ranked players should give our boys the motivation to improve on the other aspects of their game i.e professionalism etc and make that jump between 500 and top 200

Bob the Ball Boy · Junior player

Bob in Spain wrote:
And maybe I should add, given recent discussions on the forum relating to the LTA, Soto also seem to take a young players academic education very seriously as well. http://www.sototennis.com/page/460/Education

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Monday 20th of May 2013 03:13:30 PM

perfect. why the lta cant come up with a similar programme is beyond me.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Bob the Ball Boy wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
And maybe I should add, given recent discussions on the forum relating to the LTA, Soto also seem to take a young players academic education very seriously as well. http://www.sototennis.com/page/460/Education

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Monday 20th of May 2013 03:13:30 PM
perfect. why the lta cant come up with a similar programme is beyond me.

Exactly ! Sounds great.

And it's not rocket science - the US and French ones I know all run a very similar system.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Good opening draw for JWH, but then likely to meet the top seed in Rnd 2

Toby Martin has a nice draw which the 5th seed in rnd 2

Fitzy could play Scott Clayton in rnd 2 with Blecha from CZE, seeded 8 in his quarter and then the top seed in the semi

Liam has a nice start with the Italian 6th seed as the probable next opposition

Suprised ITF site has not been updated yet

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

paulisi wrote:
Good opening draw for JWH, but then likely to meet the top seed in Rnd 2

Toby Martin has a nice draw which the 5th seed in rnd 2

Fitzy could play Scott Clayton in rnd 2 with Blecha from CZE, seeded 8 in his quarter and then the top seed in the semi

Liam has a nice start with the Italian 6th seed as the probable next opposition

Suprised ITF site has not been updated yet

Aagh. If only it were all that easy wink

Love your optimism though. Fitzy has the prospect of Crugnola (unless Scott takes him out in R1) and he has a CH Ranking of 165, so it will be far from easy.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Crugnola's career high was 2009 and his recent form has been nothing to write home against - could be an interesting match.

Ratty · County player

I see nothing to significantly differentiate Soto from any number of similar tennis academies. What do you see?

And the proponents of the "tennis & school in tandem" approach have a problem to address, which is that many (most? all?) top tennis players pretty much gave up on their education at the age of about 16.

Yes, wouldn't it be nice if pleasant, well-rounded university graduates who can recite Shakespeare's sonnets and read Kant in the original German, also make successful tennis players. But I rather suspect that in real life it actually tends to be the obsessive loners who do nothing but play tennis, go to the gym, and play console games, who do.

Tennis is a typical pyramid-type profession, as described in the chapter in Freakonomics called "Why do Drug Dealers live with their Moms?" A tiny proportion of players earn a huge amount of money. These massive earnings attract lots of contenders, who mostly earn nothing.

It probably increases their chances of becoming one of the high-earners by single-minded focus (ie - no school) from an early age, but even so their chances remain miniscule. Staying at school runs the risk that "miniscule" becomes "non-existent".

RJA · Hall of fame

Ratty wrote:
And the proponents of the "tennis & school in tandem" approach have a problem to address, which is that many (most? all?) top tennis players pretty much gave up on their education at the age of about 16.

I suspect that most of them largely gave up on their education long before reaching 16, even if nominally they were still at school.

Spectator · All-time great

I don't believe that staying in school until 18 means that a tennis player's chance of success becomes "nonexistent." Janko Tipsarevic (top 10) not only finished high school, but has a university degree. Milos Raonic (16) and Sam Querrey (20) finished high school; John Isner (21) finished university, as did Kevin Anderson (25). There may have been others in the top 25 who finished schooling ... I didn't check everyone. But I think that the existence of 6 within that grouping makes the point.

huntley93 · Strong Club Player

also our very own dominic inglot went to usa collage. what happened to josh ward hibbert going to texas?

SMC1809 · All-time great

Ratty wrote:

It probably increases their chances of becoming one of the high-earners by single-minded focus (ie - no school) from an early age, but even so their chances remain miniscule. Staying at school runs the risk that "miniscule" becomes "non-existent".

Is your mis-spelling of minuscule your way of showing your dedication to your art?

RJA · Hall of fame

R1: (1) Andrew Fitzpatrick / Arkadiusz Kocyla (POL) WR 1205 v Bye
R1: Scott Clayton / Toby Martin WR 1860 v Riccardo Bonadio / Luca Pancaldi (ITA/ITA) UNR
R1: (3) Liam Broady / Joshua Ward-Hibbert WR 2184 v Bye

NB: Liam's Doubles ranked crashed by 618 places this week but as we know seeding is based on the previous week's rankings.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The question of university is probably open to debate, although a surprising number of top players show that it is possible (by the way, it was Patrick McEnroe, head of player development, who was making most of the comments and John who agreed).

But the question of high school/bac/abitur/a levels i.e. education up to age 18 is a wholly different question. It is advisable, it is easy, it paves the way for success. It is completely compatible with success at the very top level of tennis.

Spectator listed a heap of players, I added a few more and could do more - Gilles Simon, WR17, sailed through his bac in sciences, Gasquet WR 9 bac in Economics/history and then student at one of the top universities . . . These academic results are national exams, done anonymously - no special favours.

And, Ratty, ALL young males are full of testosterone. Sportsman have no more, or less, than the next guy (unless they're taking illegal drugs!). So there's no reason to think that they are any less capable - in fact, it does them a disservice - they are not necessarily 'dumb jocks'.

PS Nate Silver is a very impressive guy but I went to his talk at the LSE a few weeks ago (were you also there?) and it was seriously badly prepared adn extremely disappointing. I got the feeling he was only there to sell the book. By far the worst of all the 'celebrity' speakers they've had (that I've been to) this year.

And 'is it likely'? then, yes, because any sport where you expect to peak at 26 has plenty of room for education at age 17, and success breeds success across all walks.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Tuesday 21st of May 2013 08:22:22 AM