Training groups/Academies

Bob the Ball Boy · Junior player

RE: Training groups/Academies

Bob the Ball Boy · Junior player

not really... in the evenings the courts are available for bookings by other clubs- have seen riverside, reeds, annabel croft etc using it... but not completely sure of the system and who you would even contact to ask. the front gates are not very hard to get through but once you are inside you need a swipe pass to access the courts, gym etc, and so you have to check in with reception- not sure what they would say if you just wanted to have a look but can't imagine they would be very happy.

they do run junior tournaments there some weekends so id say your best bet would be to go as a spectator and then you can have a look around as well as watching some tennis.

and yes, backing only a couple each age group is a poor system

LordBrownof · Futures level

Thank you BTBB, really interesting!

In theory I like the idea of a national tennis centre, it certainly works well in other sports and professions so I'd certainly start from a position of trying to fix what's wrong with it first.

Could you tell us a little more about what the LTA looks for when selecting players to train there? I notice out of all the players not playing there, Katy Dunne is probably the most interesting one. Presumably at her age it's based around money or school but it would be good to have a little more general detail on selection.

Spectator · All-time great

Thank you for the insights, BtBB.

The LTA's practice on academics, if as described above, makes the new academy sound like a far more sensible prospect for most young players. Glad to see that Ms Horn has the good sense to continue her education properly.

-- Edited by Spectator on Thursday 16th of May 2013 12:59:46 AM

Bob the Ball Boy · Junior player

Katy was there briefly but moved back to Halton as the arrangement wasn't working for her.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what the LTA looks for... the combination of players they do have suggests they only invite senior players that already have a decent ranking, or the top juniors. I quite like the setup for the more established senior players as it has everything you need- the facilities, coaches/physios/doctors, and good players to hit with. They can use it as a base and their own coaches take their sessions using other senior players/juniors to hit with them.

However, where they seem to fall short is turning the juniors into fantastic seniors. The crop of boys between 1993-1990 based there seem to do very averagely considering they arrived as our very best juniors. None of the original girls based there use it anymore, or even play at all. To me, I would say the biggest fault of the LTA is making it too exclusive at such a young age... as we have seen, lots of players tend to only kick on aged 20/21/22+ so selecting the best 2 aged 15 isn't particularly smart. It always strikes me as quite funny how they can ignore a player for years and then, when the results starting coming in, they offer them a full ride at the NTC. I see their selection as entirely results based- if you don't win they don't want you there, but when you do they will offer you the world to get your name on their list.

Just briefly.. you mentioned schooling.... Pretty much on the same road as the NTC there is a good junior school- Ibstock, which supports the schedule of players.. however, only Pippa Horn attends. Lots of the juniors there ARE still in education up to GCSE's but the LTA isn't very keen on accomodating those who wish to pursue their A Level's as well as playing full time, which could be one reason a 16/17yr old player would choose not to train there.

Spectator · All-time great

Even if that is the meaning, if the LTA is, in fact, not accommodating to players of 17/18 who wish to pursue A levels, then one must wonder. Presumably policy and practice in a number of contexts (not just tennis) will change with the requirement that people stay in school until 18, which comes in over the next few years, does it not?

It would be deeply concerning if a national body - in whose interest it is to have "successful" tennis players - were to focus their entire attention on that aspect of young players' lives and not to do everything possible to ensure that the young players had options beyond tennis. Those who have a responsibility for the young players have a responsibility to them as people, not just "prospects."

Then again, the LTA does seem supportive of Sarah Borwell, who is clearly moving people in the direction of having multiple options, so ...

-- Edited by Spectator on Thursday 16th of May 2013 01:07:42 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Truly shocked by the comment :

"Lots of the juniors there ARE still in education up to GCSEs"

Not shocked at you, obviously, Bob, but this implies that some juniors aren't. How on earth can an academy be a place of excellence and not even manage to get kids through their GCSEs ? What sort of institution would consider this acceptable? Which parents would allow this ?

The following comment saddens me almost as much:

"the LTA isn't very keen on accomodating those who wish to pursue their A Level's as well as playing full time . . ."

Most European academies INSIST that kids continue their education up to 18. This is usually done by specially scheduled lessons and timetables, sometimes by correspondence courses, sometimes by taking an extra year, but no player in a state system will be allowed to fail their pre-18 education.
Leaving making it mandatory aside, actually 'not accomodating those who actively want to do A levels', well, that's nigh on criminal.

Even if the results were exceptional, this is a seriously misplaced, unnecessary policy.
As it is, with the results as they are . . .

steven · Tennis legend

I agree, this stuff (if accurate) is truly shocking.

RJA · Hall of fame

I assume that BTBB simply meant that some juniors have gone beyond the GCSE age and are no longer in education.

Bob the Ball Boy · Junior player

Agree totally- At one stage, there were 4/5 boys training there between the ages of 17-10 who could not boast one GCSE between them. Admittedly, this is often personal choice- but I think the LTA should make a point of it being mandatory.

They went through a stage of suggesting players take the BTEC course as an alternative to A Levels- at the time US colleges accepted it as proof of full time education... however since the rules there have changed the LTA haven't tried to push A Levels or anything similar. The choice to continue education is down to the individual as their set up doesn't promote it.

I'm sure Pippa Horn is not the only one pursuing some form of learning, but she's the only one in the system i know for certain is. It's horrendous as we now have players who fall out of the system and have no chance of going to university in the US or the UK through ineligibility. I spoke to Fran Stephenson's mum fairly recently- she is the tutor at Gosling, and is one example of parents rightly forcing the issue. Sadly though, a lot don't- maybe delusioned that their kid is going to be an exception to everyone else and make top 10 in the world not ever needing a GCSE.

As mentioned above by all of you- having education isn't a hinderance to your performance, if anything it helps to build well rounded people, improves performance and gives you a back-up plan should you not make it. Even if you do make it... what's the harm?

Also... in regards to Sarah Borwell's practices... yes the LTA are becoming more supportive of the college route... historically going to the US has been deemed as 'failing' as a tennis player when this couldn't be further from the truth. But they either still don't seem to understand this means they need A Levels, or just ignore that fact anyways. The centre doesn't have tutors etc and (apart from Pippa) no ties to local schools.

-- Edited by Bob the Ball Boy on Thursday 16th of May 2013 08:50:17 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RJA wrote:
I assume that BTBB simply meant that some juniors have gone beyond the GCSE age and are no longer in education.

Oh, OK, I hadn't read it like that.

However, I think that education (of some description) up to 18 is practically mandatory these days (see Steven's post above).

It's not only a practical issue (i.e. what about all the players who fail, what are they going to do with nothing to fall back on?) but an ethical one too - we have a duty to try and produce informed, functional adults and education is essential.

It is also a perfect fit for an academy of excellence. To succeed as a top tennis player, you need not only some decent shots but, more importantly, dedication, self-discipline, rigour, etc. etc. etc. These attributes cover not only your actual sport but your life - nutrition, hygiene, behaviour . . . Setting the bar high and including academic application is just a follow on.

And it's not difficult. Madison Keys was sitting doing her algebra homework, in Madrid when suddenly she got the call up that she was due on court, as a LL, and proceeded to beat a top 10 player. There are excellent correspondence courses, with computer aid, now available. Specialised colleges provide individually adapted programmes.

Zvonereva's list of degrees in economics and international relations may well be a bit exceptional but I've never known a top french player drop out of their studies before the age of 18.

chicken · Social player

Some guys at win acadamy have made a funny video impersonating Murray , nasal ,federer and djokovic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMEcUSsggMk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Roehampton NTC training schedules and programmes:

had no idea really where to put this but I thought it was very detailed and interesting :

www.muscle-fitness.co.uk/features/article/2-features/293/making-a-racket

Shhh · Challenger level

That is a really good read Coup, thanks for posting it up.

Much I don't have much regard for Roger Draper (and loathe his salary!) reading that made me wonder whether he'll be thought of a little better when some time has elapsed after his departure???

RJA · Hall of fame

Shhh wrote:
That is a really good read Coup, thanks for posting it up.

Much I don't have much regard for Roger Draper (and loathe his salary!) reading that made me wonder whether he'll be thought of a little better when some time has elapsed after his departure???

I don't think anyone really doubts that there have been some improvements, particularly in regard to youth development and sports science. If Draper could have just kept his mouth shut a little more he would have probably been held in higher regard.