Week 11 - ITF ($15,000)- Bath, UK - Hard

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

RE: Week 11 - ITF ($15,000)- Bath, UK - Hard

SMC1809 · All-time great

No problem with new posters. I think at least 7 new forum members have joined since I joined. It's just idiots that annoy me my friend. Feel free to wear whatever cap fits.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

No problem my personal troll friend.

Anyway tomorrows matches Lucy and Sam to win the all Brit games

indiana · Tennis legend

Some genuinely interesting thoughts being expressed re positivity snd negativity.

I tend to agree that ( although I am quite well in the bash the LTA camp myself ) it can get too much for me bringing up some of the LTA's delusional mutterings time and again in tournament threads when things don't go too well. I indicated just those thoughts in discussion with korriban ( a still fairy recent fine addition to the forum ) earlier in this thread.

Re more posters joining recently, who SMC indicates are less than "unswerving" in their support of British tennis players, how I would put it is more have joined who are on average more prepared to be critical. That on the whole doesn't bother me att all, since I have said myself before that I am not here to be any patt of an uncritical fan club and have always given my honest thoughts, positive and negative ( probably I'd say, as a British tennis supporter, with some bias to the positive ). Who knows everyone's motives, but most have struck me as genuine, I'd be very wary of flinging about the word "troll", especially as generally as SMC appears to be doing re some of our newer posters. On occasions I have thought one or two have got things, shall we say, a bit out of balance and have hinted at such.

On the other hand, some of our more unswerving positive folk or particular player supporters can be a bit quick to jump on folk just giving genuine less than totally positive thoughts on particular players. See the current Bath men's thread re posts about Richard Gabb and Ashley Hewitt. Again there is nothing wrong with honest less than totally positive, indeed critical, thoughts.

I agree that one should be wary of being overcritical ( or indeed overpositive ) from a scoreboard. I try to word things such as that "appears to be" very good / quite disappointing from player X.

Anyway, we are all different, and while yes there has appeared to be some more critical folk around lately, we are all different and most newer posters I say again seem perfectly genuine to me. If that's not as unswerving as some would like, well as long as it is fair criticism. tough cookie. If anyone doesn't think it is fair, then they can say so, or even call someone for being seemingly unbalanced ( re positivity vs negativity ), but as I said I'd only do that with great care and avoid generalities.

indiana · Tennis legend

SMC, I too think at least 7 new forum membets have joined since you did more than 3 years ago. Not that it's important, but it's clearly a hell of a lot more than 7 or is there some minimum posts or standard of conduct to have really "joined" ??

Spectator · All-time great

I so enjoy this board. Where else can you find someone with Steven's extraordinary grasp of British tennis past and present (not to mention DavidC on juniors). Or people like Bob in Spain (a relatively new member of the board himself), offering terrific reporting and genuine insights into matches and players. Or Or The Count's and mjd's insights into a particular player. Or the many posters who are ready with coverage of matches, posting of results (especially -- yes, this is you, Stircrazy and wolf -- fellow doubles supporters!), interesting opinions, etc. There are the players and family members, with their unique perspectives. And then so many people who post interesting comments regularly or itinerantly as part of the community (eg Korriban's -- I think it was -- report from a young French player).

No one expects posters here to be relentlessly cheerful ... or unfailingly patriotic .... But think blob's comments relate to a few unhelpful tendencies that can crop up occasionally:

(1) some short termism. A player wins a match -- he/she is a prospect! He/she loses -- not up to anything much! Enough already ... time will tell what the trends are.

(2) a tendency to act as if British players were important primarily as representatives of "British tennis" rather than as individuals. They play as themselves, with their own expectations, abilities, etc. That's what matters. When we start to burden individuals with the need to meet expectations for "British tennis" (or as examples of the failure of "British tennis") we can be unfair.

(3) an occasional drift into unhelpful speculation. For the most part, we're fans who follow from a distance. We don't really have a clue about what's going on with individual players in individual matches. So speculation about particular results -- except when there's evidence, such as Goodall's pulling out of doubles after a singles loss -- can be dodgy. And when it involves making negative assumptions about people's choices without any real evidence for those assumptions, it's just not on.

korriban · Challenger level

I pretty much agree with Indy, and the tension on this thread is upsetting me (my sensitive side coming out) so positive concilliatory thoughts all round. For me, unswerving support is as pointless and unhelpful as unrelenting criticism is mean spirited and boring. I would hope that everyone on this forum leans inherently more towards the former than the latter. I do hope this forum continues to encourage the expression of thoughts and opinions of all shades, otherwise it is just a score reporting blog with some "well dones" and "bad lucks" appended.

I think Blob's suggestion of minimising linkages to the LTA on specific tournament threads is well made, since this can be raised elsewhere quite easily. I'll certainly try to keep things more targetted. But I do think its fair to call a spade a spade when they come out with statements that are from a different planet.......on the appropriate thread of course!

Right, back to business. Go Tara. Tough draw, but if you are fit and well, would be great to back up Surprise.

blob · All-time great

Spectator wrote:
[...] ... and hope, blob, that you are feeling better.

Gosh! Thank you for asking, and remembering.

Better, yes, but not exactly well. My temperature is back in double digits though which is a nice novelty.

Very kind of you, cheered me right up

SMC1809 · All-time great

Spectator wrote:
I so enjoy this board. Where else can you find someone with Steven's extraordinary grasp of British tennis past and present (not to mention DavidC on juniors). Or people like Bob in Spain (a relatively new member of the board himself), offering terrific reporting and genuine insights into matches and players. Or Or The Count's and mjd's insights into a particular player. Or the many posters who are ready with coverage of matches, posting of results (especially -- yes, this is you, Stircrazy and wolf -- fellow doubles supporters!), interesting opinions, etc. There are the players and family members, with their unique perspectives. And then so many people who post interesting comments regularly or itinerantly as part of the community (eg Korriban's -- I think it was -- report from a young French player).

No one expects posters here to be relentlessly cheerful ... or unfailingly patriotic .... But think blob's comments relate to a few unhelpful tendencies that can crop up occasionally:

(1) some short termism. A player wins a match -- he/she is a prospect! He/she loses -- not up to anything much! Enough already ... time will tell what the trends are.

(2) a tendency to act as if British players were important primarily as representatives of "British tennis" rather than as individuals. They play as themselves, with their own expectations, abilities, etc. That's what matters. When we start to burden individuals with the need to meet expectations for "British tennis" (or as examples of the failure of "British tennis") we can be unfair.

(3) an occasional drift into unhelpful speculation. For the most part, we're fans who follow from a distance. We don't really have a clue about what's going on with individual players in individual matches. So speculation about particular results -- except when there's evidence, such as Goodall's pulling out of doubles after a singles loss -- can be dodgy. And when it involves making negative assumptions about people's choices without any real evidence for those assumptions, it's just not on.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with all you've said. Perhaps my line about unswerving support goes too far, but I think everyone should be mindful that players can and do read this forum.

IMO nobody should be posting things about players they wouldn't say to their face. In that respect, constructive criticisms are okay, e.g. commenting on playing too passively is something you could discuss with a player, questioning a players choice of tournaments is something you might discuss too.

However, calling someone a spent force probably isn't.

SMC1809 · All-time great

One more thing. It would be interesting to know why folk joined this forum. I joined because I enjoy British tennis and following the fortunes, good or bad, of British tennis players. Three years ago, finding results wasn't an easy task. Thankfully, betting sites, phone apps, and more recently the ITF sites have made it much easier, but three years ago, this forum was a great resource because of the many knowledgeable visitors.

Also, Steven's Top 25 table is a masterpiece of up-to-date information.

So why did you join? To follow British players or a favourite player? To learn more about British players? To criticise players based on a result? To find opportunities to watch tennis? Maybe to demostrate your knowledge or love of the game? To help find betting tips? (Phil Wright's comments, particularly on the women's side have been very useful for me). Would be genuinely interested to know.

SMC1809 · All-time great

indiana wrote:
SMC, I too think at least 7 new forum membets have joined since you did more than 3 years ago. Not that it's important, but it's clearly a hell of a lot more than 7 or is there some minimum posts or standard of conduct to have really "joined" ??

That was tongue in cheek Indy. Just to highlight the fact that I'm not opposed to new members joining. In fact, I'm more concerned with members leaving. Anyone heard from our midnight origamist recently?

indiana · Tennis legend

Cheers, SMC, I'm losing my touch at recognising tongue in cheek these days !

indiana · Tennis legend

As to why I joined in 2007...

Andy Murray, he made me, or rather my increasing interest in a guy who I knew about, but saw on TV for the first time at that year's Queens and Wimbledon.

So I found the "Andy Murray Message Board" and found many fellow followers. As the longtime members will know we discussed Andy much more in these days, the possiblities re his new ranking during tournaments with the great what ifs regarding his results that week and also those near him in the rankings, and also the Slams threads re his every match.

In time though I also took a much greater interest in all those other Brits who were previosly not much more than names to the extent that this has remained my tennis home, even with much less specific Andy discussion and even being aware of such as the much more dedicated Andy Murray forum. This is generally a great place. I love the stats !

I nowadays take great interest in following all the Brits and want them to succeed. But I also like discussing and debating their progress and some other general tennis matters. Some discussions and debates we have had, more particulatly over recent months, I have found very good and for me they have generally enhanced the forum.

korriban · Challenger level

philwrig wrote:
Please remember that the Belgian girl was an elite junior and expected to be a top 50 senior player AT LEAST. Just been absolutely hammered by injuries.

Phil. I think she's German. Hadn't heard of her, and only herself just 18 with a ranking close to 200, If she's also been injured, definitely one to watch. Assuming you were are talking about the girl who destroyed Ana K....and not the girl currently about to lose to Tara

-- Edited by korriban on Wednesday 13th of March 2013 12:16:21 PM

-- Edited by korriban on Wednesday 13th of March 2013 12:17:16 PM

korriban · Challenger level

Hard luck Tara. Very explainable. Early challenges adapting to new conditions, playing better and better until she got on a roll of 5 games in a row to 5-1 final set.....then when An Sophie started swinging with nothing to lose Tara's illness probably caught up with her, with nothing left in the tank.....fumes almost got her across the line though.

I've worn the T-shirt of Mexican food poisoning, and I have every sympathy, It took me days to recover, and I didn't need to play 3 sets of pro tennis.

-- Edited by korriban on Wednesday 13th of March 2013 01:01:07 PM