Week 10 - WTA Premier Mandatory - Indian Wells CA, USA - Hard

Ratty · County player

RE: Week 10 - WTA Premier Mandatory - Indian Wells CA, USA - Hard

Jan · Hall of fame

Oh dear, what a disappointing couple of results.

korriban · Challenger level

I thought I'd add some international perspective here.

I'm lucky enough to have inherited an extended French family via my wife, and by a complete fluke one of her nephews is an exceptionally good tennis player, who stayed with us again 2 weeks ago. He trained with the various national squads until a knee injury and (relative) lack of talent put paid to a professional career, although he still coaches. His closest squad contempraries and best friends were Benoit Paire and Maxime Teixera, they practiced with Gasquet and Monfils, and he remembers Dan Cox and Dan Evans well, since they must have come over to France at some point to train with him and his mates. He's still obsessed with tennis and is invited to most big French tournaments, hanging out with the French male team. Annoying!!

He was completely unbiased and unemotional about the Brits, which was interesting.

Obviously he held Andy in awe, describing him as a genius. His words.

On Heather, he said that noone was talking about her in France, because there are so many VERY GOOD players like her who come and go, win a tournament or two, maybe make QF at a Slam once or twice in their careers - he felt she was top 30 at best, even if she maxed out, since she didn't have any obvious "wow" offensive weapons.

On Laura, he said there was more chatter since the US Open, but as much about her attractiveness (he and his friends are 22/23 year old French men after all!!) and the British over-reaction to her potential, as her actual exploits in New York. He talked about the Croatian girls, Ash Barty, Sloane Stevens (and the other American top 100 teen , whose name I forget: Madison Keys, remembered), Monica Puig and Caroline Garcia as potential worldbeaters. Of Laura, he said he has seen her play a little, rated her forehand as world class, reckoned her inconsistency was a problem but would improve, but stressed above all else that with her current mobility and courtcraft she had "absolutely no chance" to make top 10 ever.........

I did argue, but he was adamant that the supreme athlete beats the supreme artist 8 times out of 10, and that all the top 10 would be brilliant or at least very good at both aspects of their game.........his point was that it COULD happen for Laura, but because she isn't a natural athlete, and is well below average in that regard, it will take many years of gradual improvement to get where she needs to be (and that this was a hard task)........whereas other talented juniors with more athletic ability COULD make it even in their teens.

Could all be gallic bluster, but it put me in my place!

-- Edited by korriban on Friday 8th of March 2013 05:46:02 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Been thinking a bit more about this, and still absolutely convinced that Laura's current strategy is the strategy to get the 5, 6, 7 ( how great would that be ! ) wins.

Yes, don't have unthinking swishes at the ball, which I think she does sometimes but not as often as many think. That though is more to do with give every point respect rather than strategy.

Otherwise stay as she is. This so-called "hyper risk" approach I feel is being looked on as such by the number of times she misses. But again I say that is "execution". To me she has generally not timed the shot quite right or actually more of an issue not been in really proper position. The shot then goes out and some people then consider she was overpressing / going for the lines too much when I suspect her aim was to a much safer spot than that.

It remains to me a question of hard work, practice, practice and get that movement better and in particular to be in the right position on the bsll. Back off ? No, except in occasional very specific circumstances eg. weather. That is the way to self doubt and second guessing yourself.

Laura should continue just as she is, but in time get very much better at it.

Miriambee · Futures level

Our one consolation Heather and Marina won their doubles vs Spears/Kops Jones, 6-3 6-4.

indiana · Tennis legend

Now, that is a good doubles win. Well done, them.

SMC1809 · All-time great

indiana wrote:
Been thinking a bit more about this, and still absolutely convinced that Laura's current strategy is the strategy to get the 5, 6, 7 ( how great would that be ! ) wins.

Yes, don't have unthinking swishes at the ball, which I think she does sometimes but not as often as many think. That though is more to do with give every point respect rather than strategy.

Otherwise stay as she is. This so-called "hyper risk" approach I feel is being looked on as such by the number of times she misses. But again I say that is "execution". To me she has generally not timed the shot quite right or actually more of an issue not been in really proper position. The shot then goes out and some people then consider she was overpressing / going for the lines too much when I suspect her aim was to a much safer spot than that.

It remains to me a question of hard work, practice, practice and get that movement better and in particular to be in the right position on the bsll. Back off ? No, except in occasional very specific circumstances eg. weather. That is the way to self doubt and second guessing yourself.

Laura should continue just as she is, but in time get very much better at it.

Wouldn't that suggest her focus should be on recognising when she's out of position and then playing a 'much safer still' shot?

indiana · Tennis legend

I do see the point you are msking, SMC. But to maybe clarify myself a bit better, I was not meaning "out of position" on court ( though on occasions thst would contribute to it ), but very much more out of position with where her feet are at the time she makes the shot. It is thus part of what I really see as the overall "execution" of the play, feet in position properly and then stroke properly produced.

Yes, I would expect Laura to recognise if she hsd got out of position in say having to then chase a ball and to react accordingly ( eg. a slower slice to help get herself back into the rally rather than a low % swish ). But what I really meant was being there but not really there if you see what I mean, and she is probably only going to realise that when the error has been made.

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

Plenty of interesting debate on Laura's strategy. I think that she basically needs to keep being aggressive and playing the game style that she has demonstrated can produce a very high level of tennis, just not as often as we would like recently. The one condition I would make to that is that there are certain points in a match where is does make sense to reign in the aggression and force her opponent to play a decent point - (i.e. situations where she is 15-30 on serve having just made a couple of errors). The problem is that it's actually quite difficult for Laura to play points with a bit more safety but without just becoming passive and playing a gamestyle that does not suit her.

I doubt yesterday's match had anything to do with tactics or gamestyle, just that having not won for a while Laura got nervous and despite leading 6-2 4-1 it only to one break of serve for Arvidsson to be right back in the match. Hopefully she can win a match soon as it might be the catalyst for a good run.

philwrig · Hall of fame

I agree with Kundalini that this just isn't Laura's time of year. Remember last year she had 3 consecutive 1st round losses which were much worse during this time. I think Laura will do better on the clay than people think, then she has the grass, US open and Tokyo to loook forward to. She will be fresh so will be able to maximise her opportunities there.

Frustratingly Laura felt that she was hitting the ball the best she had all year in those first 2 sets, but then wanted the win so much that she tightened up. So that is a positive sign. The problem with Laura's game is when it goes off she can go from playing top 20 tennis to not even top 100 tennis in the space of a couple of points.

She has only one of playing and that is to be aggressive, but maybe incorporate more margin for error when not quite feeling the ball ( but she needs no advice from me as her coach and Laura herself no exactly whats required in those circumstances ).

Hev didn't seem too gutted, lack of prep due to an abdominal strain was the main contributing factor. A nice win in the doubles will have cheered her up and remember she was better in the second half of the year also.

indiana · Tennis legend

Maybe the early season tournament set-up isn't generally suited to Laura, but I wasn't so sure of this as kundalini.

Last year she had no sort of proper close season and was behind the ball from the start due to injury. This season I think she could have done a lot better if in much more consistent form and was maybe increasingly affected by that chesr infection.

I expect much better early season form in future years, though yes grass season onwards is probably more her time.

Will be interesting to see how she gets on in big clay court tournaments.

What are the draw sizes for the Madrid and Rome events ? 64 and she and Hev will be into the main draws fine, 48 or less and maybe not. But then again no doubt good qualifying points. Sorry, hard to check from my phone.

tony_orient · ATP qualifying

indiana wrote:

What are the draw sizes for the Madrid and Rome events ? 64 and she and Hev will be into the main draws fine, 48 or less and maybe not. But then again no doubt good qualifying points. Sorry, hard to check from my phone.

Last Direct Acceptances last year were 55 & 57 so they should be fine to get into the main draw.

Spectator · All-time great

Some interesting points from many quarters - thank you. And delighted to see Ms Watson and Ms Erakovic do well.

-- Edited by Spectator on Friday 8th of March 2013 10:25:57 PM

Ratty · County player

philwrig wrote:
I agree with Kundalini that this just isn't Laura's time of year.

Sports fans, don't you love 'em! Where something which happens twice in a row - like a dodgy start to the 2012 and 2013 seasons, although I'm not quite sure how the L32 in the 2013 Aussie Open fits in with that - becomes a "pattern" ...

And I can't quite get all the agonising. Let me guess what happened yesterday. Serving at 4-2 in the second set, Laura tensed up a bit, and Arvidsson started swinging freely (after all, why not?), probably landed a couple of big winners that could just as easily have gone out, and that was enough to give that slight momentum shift.

It's just random sh*t dudes! And on the basis that Laura and Heather haven't suddenly lost their mojos (it's possible, I guess), nothing more than regression to the mean will result in them starting to win again, probably quite soon. But I'm sure that all kinds of other explanations will be found ...

smile

philwrig · Hall of fame

Ratty wrote:
philwrig wrote:
I agree with Kundalini that this just isn't Laura's time of year.
Sports fans, don't you love 'em! Where something which happens twice in a row - like a dodgy start to the 2012 and 2013 seasons, although I'm not quite sure how the L32 in the 2013 Aussie Open fits in with that - becomes a "pattern" ...
And I can't quite get all the agonising. Let me guess what happened yesterday. Serving at 4-2 in the second set, Laura tensed up a bit, and Arvidsson started swinging freely (after all, why not?), probably landed a couple of big winners that could just as easily have gone out, and that was enough to give that slight momentum shift.
It's just random sh*t dudes! And on the basis that Laura and Heather haven't suddenly lost their mojos (it's possible, I guess), nothing more than regression to the mean will result in them starting to win again, probably quite soon. But I'm sure that all kinds of other explanations will be found ...

Also injured in 2009, 2010 and 2011 at the same stage. The Aussie open is different as she has alot of support including family being there. The facts are there that Laura has had better results in hot humid conditions ( Palermo, Ghangzou, Tokyo, New York, Miami ) rather than dry dessert conditions. Only time will tell if that trend continues but to me there is a trend already.