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Post Info TOPIC: Doping Again !


Tennis legend

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RE: Doping Again !


seagull wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes. It also casts aspersion (quite unfairly in most cases) on all other players who are out because they are 'injured' - you can't help but ask the question....


Thats about half of the top 20!!

 

Iknew there was something dodgy about Novak, and Kei and Stan and that Murray bloke 


That's exactly my point.

By keeping the reasons secret for doping absences and silently endorsing the 'story' the player puts forward, the ITF casts doubt on the absences of the top players (and others), allowing people to start rumours, and undermining their own product. It's ridiculous, unfair and shortsighted.



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Coup Droit wrote:
seagull wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes. It also casts aspersion (quite unfairly in most cases) on all other players who are out because they are 'injured' - you can't help but ask the question....


Thats about half of the top 20!!

 

Iknew there was something dodgy about Novak, and Kei and Stan and that Murray bloke 


That's exactly my point.

By keeping the reasons secret for doping absences and silently endorsing the 'story' the player puts forward, the ITF casts doubt on the absences of the top players (and others), allowing people to start rumours, and undermining their own product. It's ridiculous, unfair and shortsighted.


 Exactly - and that is where a lot of the Nadal stories emanate from, his various injury absences linked to lots of questioning about his physique (biceps etc) which seemed to go up and down over the seasons lead to rumours about the real reason for him being absent; whatever the truth and I personally like to think none of the top players take PED's, the conspiracy theorists only get fuel to add to their fire when the ITF/ATP stay silent on the real miscreants.    



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JonH


Strong Club Player

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Doping bans are now great stuff.

Whenever I see a tennis doping headline, I open the article with relish, keen to see what fantastic explanation concocted by the player awaits inside. It simply adds colour to the whole show. Frankly, I wish for half a dozen player in the top 100 to have such a story each year. The Errani one was great. Did she, didn't she. Do you trust her at her word. It's like a good old murder mystery.

And the ITF. Their seeming po faced acceptance of the most fanciful explanations is nothing short of hilarious. It's become a clown show.

Infact, next time the ITF hold such a press conference, they need David Haggerty on stage in a clown costume and red nose, riding a unicycle and the the guilty player in question gets fired out of a big canon to commence their ban.



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All-time great

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Please forgive my rambling at considerable latitude:

The ITF in particular suffer the same problem of many sporting governing bodies around the world. As should be the case, it is the players that are famous and highly remunerated. The governing bodies are not.
At a certain threshold players can bring suit against a governing body that threatens them with financial ruination. Even if the governing body are completely sure that their case in things like doping charges is absolutely watertight, they face the invidious choice to gamble their very existence on the courts backing their version, and thus not having to bear the associated costs of the actions.
Given that choice, of principle or survival, well, principles lose; most every time.

Over time, that means that you almost actively enter a landscape where the best solution for all parties is to avoid the controversy or conflict in all cases, at all costs. A sort of shorthand arises in order to speed along the deals and the process in ordre to get things filed away as expeditiously as possible and return to projecting an outward face of seeming calm and normality.
It's just easier. If you are intransigent then alternative bodies will supplant you, which dilutes the authority and public unity of the sport, an outcome almost never to the overall benefit or wellbeing of whichever game is concerned - see boxing, darts, IPL/Test cricket etc.

The alternative is perhaps to have a ruthlessly capitalist governing body; one primarily concerned, first and foremost, with making itself money, and almost with a private sector styled fiduciary duty to do so. In that manner, if successfully rapacious, they at least have the financial resources to, in theory, defend themselves against potential lawsuits should they find it in their interest to do so.
The downsides are that they often then don't want to challenge the golden geese of the players for fear of impeding the flow of cash on which they depend.
This effectively makes you FIFA, or the IOC - both very cash and resource rich, but with... erm... other associated problems.

If you are someone trying to be a neutral arbiter for the good of the paying punter, or casual fan, like WADA, or CAS, you are hated on all sides. A grudging aacknowledgment of your existence as a necessity, but only because no one has yet found a way to make your removal profitable in all directions.

I wish this was as simple a process as it is to me. I call it cheating, and I would ban them all on a one strike basis. If you've ever encountered the nexus of finessing arguments of the morality of tax avoidance vs. tax efficiency then you'll understand how seemingly straightforward moral decisions are easily subverted by Mammon.

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Data I post, opinions I offer, 'facts' I assert, are almost certainly all stupidly wrong.

Sim


County player

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Seems a good enough thread to use....

As Serena has pulled out of the AO, and as defending champion is unable to furfil the traditional role of helping with the draw, the organizers have decided to use Maria Sharapova who was banned for last year's event.

That obviously makes a  lot of sense.



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All-time great

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Slightly different one- alize cornet has missed 3 unannounced tests, last one in October and an anti doping case has been opened. She says she passed 17 other tests and has "valuable" reasons she missed these tests. Nonetheless rules are rules and you can't miss 3 tests so expect the itf to give her a ban.

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JonH


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ITF have published their testing summary for 2017. The 6,200 or so tests shows an increase of around 25-30% on last year (it was 4,800 in 2016 and 4,400 tests in 2015).

Player individual data not yet published

www.itftennis.com/antidoping/statistics/data.aspx

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JonH


Challenger level

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Not tennis, and not transparently doping related, but fairly extraordinary that at the winter Olympics, GB in 16th position on the medal table, at time of writing after Yarnold's gold, are a place ahead of the Olympic Athletes of Russian origin.

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Strong Club Player

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The surprise being that OAR are as low as 17th? If that's what you meant, totally agree.

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All-time great

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They definitely went all out in Sochi, every nation experiences a bit of a dip the games after the hosting

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Tennis legend

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Kind of thinking their preparation / focus may in some cases have been less than ideal. Plus these that have been 'approved' are I assume a much reduced number from the err "all out" with bells on contingent in Sochi. So a fall off was very understandable if maybe expected to a bit better than they have to date.

In general though yes, even without all that stuff, invariably a dip after a home games, though GB's total number of medals ( though not gold medals, but even then close ) went up in Rio.



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The Brits were still on the programme!

Undoubtedly in marginal sports that arent quite professionally sustainable ie. hockey, equestrian, pentathlon, swimming, diving and the sitting down sports at which we excell rowing, sailing and cycling we are able to utilise the poor tax lottery funding to facilitate the mainly middle class and publicly school educated athletes success. I dont think the nation would tolerate such funding out of general taxation.

At least it is overt, although I love college sport in the US in general I feel the way it strips out what would be a whole day of professional sport with multi-million dollar contracts going to the universities who do not pay their athletes is the biggest scam of them all. If you are live to the nation playing in a stadium in front of 100,000 paying fans all eating in the stadium and wearing the merchandise you should get paid! I would have a salary cap at 40% of turnover for each institution and a flat salary fixed for the four or five years of eligibility, they can of course pay their own tuition fees who knows it may get discounted as part of the contract negotiations?

Apologises for my annual rant. Any lottery players or student footballers or basketball players not playing in the NFL feel free to comment.

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Russian curler (sorry Olympic Athlete from Russia) caught and tested positive for meldonium (a la Maria Sharapova) over the weekend, lose a bronze medal at the winter olympics.

Meldonium heh.

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JonH


Tennis legend

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Never got the memo 

I hope the guy's wife knew what he was supposedly up to or there could be a slight domestic! Was a husband and wife mixed curling pair.



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Challenger level

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Highly recommend the eye-popping 2017 documentary "Icarus" for the full skinny on what Russia were up to in Sochi.

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