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Post Info TOPIC: Week 36 - Great Britain F15 ($10,000) - Roehampton (Hard)


Club Coach

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RE: Week 36 - Great Britain F15 ($10,000) - Roehampton (Hard)


Marzi takes first set 6-1

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Social player

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" ...they should really think about whether they want to spend their twenties or their thirties finding something they're actually good at"

This implies that they are not good at tennis. Rather harsh given that they are in the top twenty or so in the country (thinking GB here). 

It's the nature of the sport that only the top 250(?) in the world will make decent money.  Other sports allow a lot more to make a good living out of it. 

 



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Club Coach

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Marzi wins 1&3

Burn a break down 2-4

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Club Coach

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Burn loses first set 6-3

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All-time great

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It seems to me that there are lots of good reasons for futures. They're a great place for young players to make a start. They're a great place for people who are generally at a higher level but have had a dip in form (cf Mr Bogdanovic) -- gives them a chance to regain confidence and gain points. They're fun for people who are good enough to play professionally at that level but don't want to go on the Tour full time ... gives them (at whatever age) the chance to engage with the professional game and is useful for the newer players as a testing ground against more battle-honed folk. And if people are good enough to be in the top-25 or so nationally and want to play even if they're not going to get much higher, just because they love the game and want to do the best that they can ... well, why shouldn't they? If I were that good, I might want to keep going, too!

And I do think there should be more money available -- for the good of the whole game, not simply the players. Firstly, the argument that people don't go to Futures, ergo they must not be of interest and therefore don't merit further recompense doesn't fully hold water for me. I think there are probably a fair number of people who would happily trot along to a futures match (especially on a grass court in the summer .... but at other times too) if any effort whatsoever were made to present them as something worth watching. Or even something that you could find without first needing a secret map, a special key and a password whispered in hushed tones. Why not try to create the market? Or if you don't think that Futures ("your chance to see the stars of the future") would do it, why not try to create something like the various club systems in other countries, mixing players of different (professional) ability levels? A "club tour" could help raise income levels, let lower-level players mingle with those at a higher level, and get more viewers.

And the benefits could well go beyond the enrichment of the players. At present, it often feels as if the great British public doesn't know anything between a pleasant batting of the ball back and forth on a summer's day and Wimbledon (OK, maybe Queens as well). The more you could make tennis something that people can watch, at a level where it's fun, locally, the more people I think would engage with the sport. That could mean more people playing at a basic level (good for health, if nothing else) and it could also potentially increase the pool of people playing at a higher level.



-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 5th of September 2012 06:56:14 PM

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Futures level

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Tennis isn't a national sport, it's international. Can you name me a sport (apart from perhaps football) where the 500th best player in the world makes a good living from the sport? I can't think of any immediately.

I'm not saying they're not good at tennis per se, rather that they're not good enough to make a living out of the game as it's currently funded. If you're family is wealthy then you're lucky but for most of us we had to find something in our early twenties that we were good enough at to pay the bills. Why is this any different.




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Club Coach

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Burn lost 3 & 4



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Club Coach

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LordBrownof wrote:

Tennis isn't a national sport, it's international. Can you name me a sport (apart from perhaps football) where the 500th best player in the world makes a good living from the sport? I can't think of any immediately.


Cricket, American Football, Rugby Union, Basketball. I think it's more about whether you have the good fortune to be good at a popular team sport or a popular individual sport.

Beyond golf, I can't think of a more generous individual sport than tennis.



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Henman TID


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SMC1809 wrote:

Spectator, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There's a phrase - "the public gets what the public wants" (or a song lyric anyway), but the reality is the public gets what they're told they want.  


 

I think that this point sufficiently answers the question. It's just an issue of marketing and for once, I'm not going to put the whole blame on people in charge since luck and First Mover Advantage play a very important role.

 

If it's just an issue of talent, why do female tennis players swim in money whilst female footballers depend on the men's game to even make a subsistence level income? Don't get me wrong, I adore women's tennis and don't care about football played by people of either gender, but I don't see why one is better or worse than the other. I think the answer is that someone, somewhere down history, made women's tennis popular enough to appeal to mainstream attention, and the same couldn't be done for football.

Ultimately 95% of sports followers* are just seeking a hero to cling on to and the sad reality of sport is that to make money out of it, you need to attract the glory hunters. Haven't we seen the buzz surrounding British Futures level wild cards at Wimbledon (well, the buzz doesn't exist any more, since the LTA have employed that tried and tested path to success - limiting opportunities)? Did those guys suddenly become talented when they got a wild card? Obviously, it was just a combination of media-hype and people hoping that there was a potential to jump up on their bandwagon. And it's not unique to Wimbly, lower ranked players have received genuine, wholehearted bucketloads  of support when they've played the Davis Cup or the erstwhile Aberdeen Cup, which are/were heavily promoted. Again, did they suddenly become better players?

If, somehow, we can promote the Futures, or at least Challengers, to that degree I have absolutely no qualms in believing that players ranked better than 500 will become self-sufficient. You just need to find a way to tell your average "OMG!!! USAIN BOLT IS SO FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111"sports fan that they're watching the greatest tennis player in the south of England or something like that, and the cash will flow.

 

SMC1809 wrote:

Snooker is a classic example. With a mass of hype, 2 men hitting ball around a 12 x 6 table was watched by 16 million viewers in the UK at one point in the past. Similarly, how many people would have watched the Paralympics without the warm-up act beforehand and the publicity that has surrounded it.

 


 

Or the Olympics itself, for that matter. How many fanboys and fangirls can tell you where those athletes are running this week or where those rowers are? I think less than 1% of the people who watched the Olympics.  Most of the sports in the Olympics are not even remotely marketable on tactics alone, so you have to rely on creating heroes and bringing in the nationalistic angle.

Look at the beauty of a kosher sport like tennis or cricket - it lies in the underlying Game theory. You have to adjust your strategies according to what your opponent is doing (and in the case of cricket, even the weather and the pitch), what works for one opponent will not work for another. The richness of tactics is what makes such sports remarkable, and one can even enjoy looking at a game being played at the local park. This is most unlike running, where you just need to run as fast as you can and then hope that the others are slower. You don't think "I'll just run a bit slowly this time and see what happens. Ho, ho, ho, what intrigue!" 

I don't doubt for even one second that Mo Farah is as good a sportsperson as Djokovic, but I sincerely doubt that the public equally enjoy their respective professions. Most tennis fans would watch Djokovic clinically decimate his opponents, all day, but how many people would watch a man run all day long? It's just a dude running, after all! I speak as a person who is working his backside off to train for amateur half-marathons and I wouldn't dream of making a tape of me running and telling my friends to watch it given how monotonous it is, unlike my comically inadept football skills, which, no matter how sub-standard, will make for decent viewing given that it features me trying to outthink other people (and failing at it). 

 

 

 

 

* and the other 5% are sad fishes like Salmon who land up on sites like these 



-- Edited by Salmon on Wednesday 5th of September 2012 10:51:24 PM

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All of which are national sports that don't require the individual to move around the world, paying for air travel and hotel accommodation out of their earnings. All of which are salary based, no?

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RJA


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The other results were victories for Evans, Roelofse and Short.

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RJA


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L16: (1) Dan Evans WR 337 beat Jack Carpenter WR 789 6-3, 6-2
L16: Miles Bugby WR 1257 lost to (7) Marcus Daniell (NZL) WR 688 7-5, 6-3
L16: (4) Ruan Roelofse (RSA) WR 463 beat Joshua Jones WR 932 6-0, 6-3
L16: Oliver Hudson WR 1072 lost to (6) James Marsalek WR 663 6-1, 6-3
L16: Jean Andreson (RSA) WR 989 beat Tom Burn WR 783 6-3, 6-4
L16: (Q) Alexander Jhun UNR lost to (3) Josh Milton WR 438 3-6, 6-3, 6-3
L16: (8) Alex Slabinsky WR 727 lost to Matt Short WR 767 6-0, 6-7(3), 6-0
L32: (Q) Imran Aswat UNR lost to (WC) James Ireland WR 1507 6-2, 6-2


QF: (1) Dan Evans WR 337 v (7) Marcus Daniell (NZL) WR 688
QF: (4) Ruan Roelofse (RSA) WR 463 v (6) James Marsalek WR 663
QF: Jean Andreson (RSA) WR 989 v (3) Josh Milton WR 438
QF: Matt Short WR 767 v (WC) James Ireland WR 1507

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RJA


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QF: (1) Jean Anderson & Ruan Roelofse (RSA/RSA) WR 607 beat Marcus Gan & Oliver Gan UNR 6-3, 6-3
QF: (3) Tom Burn & Dan Evans WR 1359 beat Aaron Banasik & Myles Orton UNR 7-6(3), 6-3
QF: Rowan Isaaks & Adam Slansky UNR lost to (4) Miles Bugby & Andrew Fitzpatrick WR 1490 6-1, 7-6(3)
QF: Jack Carpenter & Neil Pauffley WR 2215 lost to (2) Marcus Daniell & Manuel Sanchez (NZL/MEX) WR 1040 6-2, 6-4


SF: (1) Jean Anderson & Ruan Roelofse (RSA/RSA) WR 607 v (3) Tom Burn & Dan Evans WR 1359
SF: (4) Miles Bugby & Andrew Fitzpatrick WR 1490 v (2) Marcus Daniell & Manuel Sanchez (NZL/MEX) WR 1040

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Challenger qualifying

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Spectator wrote:

Or if you don't think that Futures ("your chance to see the stars of the future") would do it, why not try to create something like the various club systems in other countries, mixing players of different (professional) ability levels? A "club tour" could help raise income levels, let lower-level players mingle with those at a higher level, and get more viewers.


 

I like this idea, not sure whether it's realistic or not...anything to improve the structure of British tennis and getting more people playing competitively at all levels



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All-time great

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Spectator, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. There's a phrase - "the public gets what the public wants" (or a song lyric anyway), but the reality is the public gets what they're told they want. Snooker is a classic example. With a mass of hype, 2 men hitting ball around a 12 x 6 table was watched by 16 million viewers in the UK at one point in the past. Similarly, how many people would have watched the Paralympics without the warm-up act beforehand and the publicity that has surrounded it.

When it comes to tennis and particularly Futures, how many people other than the dedicated followers on here are even aware there is a Futures tour. And how many would be aware even when the event in their own town / city?

One of the things the LTA should be doing in my opinion, is to publicise these types of tournaments. For example, start by asking (because it's free) commentators / pundits to talk in a positive light about Futures. I'm sure we've all heard many of them paint a bleak picture of the Futures circuit, like it's some kind of punishment to escape from before playing proper tennis.

Publicise the fact that professional tennis is coming to your town within schools etc, get some interest while they're young. I'm sure the parents would be glad of some free entertainment for a change. Spend some money to advertise the event perhaps. There have been several posts on this forum asking where tournaments are, how to get access to the club etc. If we don't know, what chance does Joe Public have? If the Futures can be promoted and glammed up a bit, then maybe the funds to offer more reward will follow.

If the LTA want to improve the state of Briitsh tennis, start where the players start - The Futures.

 



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