Davis Cup 2012 - E-A Zone I R1 - Great Britain v Slovak Republic, 10-12 Feb

Jan · Hall of fame

RE: Davis Cup 2012 - E-A Zone I R1 - Great Britain v Slovak Republic, 10-12 Feb

indiana · Tennis legend

Jan wrote:
That is SO complicated! Glad we have Steven to make it all crystal clear!!

Yes, real thanks to Steven for sorting it all out for us and giving us such a guide.

It may look complcated just now, but I don't agree with Count that it is bonkers. or indeed with SC that it is arcane. It'll sort itself out as we move through the year and GB's aim must just be to win each tie as it is put in front of us.

As it is, I look at the main issues like this : We're basically in a quarter with Slovakia and the seeded Belgium. Beat both of them and we go into a World Group play-off tie. Prove the worst of the 3 ( by either us losing to Slovakia who then lose to Belgium, or being the loser between ourselves and Belgium ( if both of us have lost to Slovakia ) and we go into a relegation match against the losers between Israel and Portugal. Maybe that still seems just as bad, but it works for me smile

As Steven said, masters of jamminess anyway in getting an initial home tie and then a second home tie if we win that.

-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 10:31:36 AM

steven · Tennis legend

johnnylad wrote:
I've been looking up South Africans all day. That was a cheeky edit!

LOL sorry about that - at the start of the EAZ G1 draw when they were placing the seeds, I thought I heard them say South Africa were on line 5 just before the audio feed cut out and then later GB came out on line 7. Whether I mis-heard in the first place or they quickly corrected themselves while I couldn't hear them, I don't know, but either way it turned out to be wrong.

The reason I didn't immediately realise that South Africa, as the 2nd seeds, had to go at the bottom of the draw (and hence them being on line 5 had to be a mistake) is because teams from the 1st and 2nd quarters of the draw never meet, i.e. it's a bit like an ATP qualifying draw, where the top seed goes in the top section, the 2nd seed in the second section and so on. But of course the top two quarters do coincide in one of the relegation playoffs, so that should have rung alarm bells straight away.

steven · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
It may look complcated just now, but I don't agree with Count that it is bonkers. or indeed with SC that it is arane. It'll sort itself out as we move through the year and GB's aim must just be to win each tie as it is put in front of us.
As it is, I look at the main issues like this : We're basically in a quarter with Slovakia and the seeded Belgium. Beat both of them and we go into a World Group play-off tie. Prove the worst of the 3 ( by either us losing to Slovakia who then lose to Belgium, or being the loser between ourselves and Belgium ( if both of us have lost to Slovakia ) and we go into a relegation match against the losers between Israel and Portugal. Maybe that still seems just as bad, but it works for me

While I agree with the Count that small round robin groups might be fun (and there would certainly be some advantages to organisers and fans in knowing at the start of the year when/where all or most of their country's ties were going to be), we know that for various reasons it's never going to happen unless they make every group work like the Group 3s (i.e. play the whole competition in a week or two at a single venue), and then we end up with a Fed Cup-type situation where we haven't had a home tie since the early 1990s, so I certainly wouldn't be keen on that!
I also agree with Indiana that the current system is not as complicated as it looks and in some ways, it's actually quite clever, in terms of getting the amount of movement between groups each year about right while minimising the number of ties that need to be played and ensuring that no ties are meaningless.
As he says, the promotion side of the draw is completely straightforward - it works like an ATP qualifying competition, except that in Group 1, the prize for qualifying is a place in the World Group playoffs.
The relegation side only seems complicated because if you lose in R1, whether you get another chance to avoid a final relegation playoff or not depends on whether the team that beat you wins again or not. Yet the guiding principle they use is that a team has to win at least one proper tie each year to avoid relegation, and that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Akhenaten · Pro player

If it was a round-robin, and the group was BEL, SVK & GBR.

If in Match 1 : SVK bt GBR 5-0,
then in Match 2 : BEL bt SVK 5-0.
BEL then plays GBR, and wins the first singles to lead 1-0.
The other 4 matches will be dead rubbers, as BEL will already know they've won the group by "goal diff". That's rubbish.

Another example is if SVK bt GBR 3-2. BEL bt SVK 3-2. Then GBR bt BEL 3-2. It'd come down to horrible sets for & against. That's messy.

The current system is clever way of not having these messy situations.

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, to me a round robin is just a no no. We cannot have such as the example Alkenaten brings up of one team knowing its fate ( 1st or last ) while still effecting the fates of the other 2. Clearly many other scenarios where this would happen could be produced.

As Steven says to me the only matter that is probably making it look and sound complicated is how Belgium ( and elsewhere the other teams with byes ) might be brought into the relegation process. But as he says it is done quite cleverly, and is both being entirely fair and, because of that, sensible.

Actually overall, I seriously cannot see a more fair and effficient way they could have dealt with an 11 team group with 4 going to World Group play-offs and 2 being relegated, and incidentally where all teams will play 2 or 3 ties in the year.

daisy · County player

Neil Harman has posted an article to the TimesOnline at 12.01am 31/1/2012. It is mostly about Djokovic and his change of fortune ref the Slams. It ends with the following comment.

Leon Smith, the Great Britain Davis Cup captain, is unlikely to have Andy Murray to select for the Europe/Africa Zone Group I tie against a strong Slovakia side in Glasgow next week.

Murray, having reached the semi-finals of the Australian Open, his fifth consecutive grand-slam semi-final, needs time to recover from those exertions and will resurface in Dubai next month.

James Ward will lead the Britain team with a recall in prospect for Dan Evans, who last played in Lithuania almost two years ago.

------------------------------------------------

FWIW - Andy, Jamie and Judy Murray are due to be at a TennisScotland event on 7th February in Edinburgh. Andy has said he wants a 'break' to catch up with friends and family and to spend some time training with Lendl. It seems he will also need to fit in a spot of furniture hunting on account of needing to replace a sofa chewed by new pup Rusty ***

At the moment his schedule is:-

7th Feb - Edinburgh

10/12 Feb - ??? Davis Cup

27 Feb - Dubai 500

10-18 March -I/Wells (first round Bye so no play until Sat 10th at least)

21-31 March - Miami

---------------------------------------

Harman had earlier written an article with this to say:

Yesterday, Murray departed for Britain and Lendl had one last round of golf on the sand-belt before setting off back to Florida. They will not meet until the next significant stop on the ATP World Tour, the BNP Paribas Masters in Indian Wells, California, in March,

--------------------------

*** per https://twitter.com/#!/maggiemay_hem

Oh and Dad, your prize money is going towards a new sofa since Rusty has eaten the old one. Space in the #destructogang @marleyterrier?

Marleyterrier has marshalled the troups and taken the precaution of banning the press on account of destructogang now having a couple of 'celebrity members'.

-- Edited by daisy on Tuesday 31st of January 2012 03:39:29 AM

-- Edited by daisy on Tuesday 31st of January 2012 10:44:17 AM

steven · Tennis legend

Muzz is indeed out of the team - which is Wardy, Evo & Fleming/Hutchins.

http://www.lta.org.uk/fans-major-events/Davis-Cup/News/2012/Great-Britain-Davis-Cup-Team-Announced/

A real pity, partly for the reasons I mentioned above, but this is still a winnable (and potentially very exciting) tie, I think - especially if Evo can bring over some of his Zagreb form! And of course, if they were to win, it would be a huge confidence boost for the rest of the team.

-- Edited by steven on Tuesday 31st of January 2012 12:39:53 PM

steven · Tennis legend

The Slovak team has been announced on the Slovak Tennis Federation site at http://bit.ly/zeRu6D - no Slovak no. 2 Beck (as expected), so:

SINGLES

Lukas Lacko WR 97
Martin Klizan WR 116

DOUBLES

Filip Polasek DWR 22
Michal Mertinak DWR 60

Evo played Lacko in early 2009, coincidentally also in Glasgow - he lost but it went to 3 sets. Lacko beat Flembo for the loss of just 3 games at the same tournament, so that could be seen to limit the options if it comes down to a 5th rubber.

Colin is 4-1 v Polasek and 0-1 v Mertinak, while Ross is 4-4 v Polasek and 1-2 v Mertinak. The four doubles players have never all played in the same match but both Brits have won their last 4 matches against Polasek and they managed one of those wins together on the way to the St Petersburg title.

I certainly expect us to do better than the 0-5 drubbing Tim Henman and Miles MacLagan (plus Neil Broad in the doubles) suffered the only other time we played them in 1995! wink

-- Edited by steven on Tuesday 31st of January 2012 01:24:18 PM

steven · Tennis legend

In fact, most of the UK press are reporting this morning that Andy won't play against Slovakia - as far as I can gather, he hasn't officially said he won't yet (though we should get an indication later today because it is the initial deadline for teams to be announced) and they are basing on the fact that he has dropped heavy hints that he needs rest to recover from niggles in his back that he was experiencing during the AO.

If he can't play, it would be a real pity given the efforts made last year to get into G 1 in the first place, given that the run of home draws we have had recently means that draws in G 1 (or G 2, but hopefully not!) are likely to get harder rather than easier in the next few years and the fact that he finds it even harder to play away ties where the surface won't be chosen to suit him. So fingers crossed that a few days' rest has left him feeling well enough to have a go.

If he does play, I hope he just plays the rubbers he needs to play and doesn't feel any obligation to turn out on the Sunday unless he is really needed (though obviously there's a fair chance this time that he would be) - that seemed to be a mistake (if a very well-meaning one) in September.

adz1983 · Intermediate Club Player

Any idea on scheduling?

Just wondering if on the Friday it is always No. 1 v No.2 and Sunday it is No. 1 v No. 1

steven · Tennis legend

adz1983 wrote:
Any idea on scheduling?
Just wondering if on the Friday it is always No. 1 v No.2 and Sunday it is No. 1 v No. 1

Yes it is. The only thing the draw on Thursday decides is which team's no. 1 plays the other team's no. 2 first on the Friday. 1 v 1 is always the first match on the Sunday.

RJA · Hall of fame

To be honest I am more that a little irked by Murray not playing. As I said last September

"All I can say is that Murray best be available if we get a tricky away tie. Otherwise his participation in this years ties will not only have been a waste of time but actively harmful in denying opportunities to others."

If he isn't committed to playing Davis Cup then fine, that's his call, but playing last year denied others the chance to get a win or two against weaker opposition.

-- Edited by RJA on Tuesday 31st of January 2012 09:49:18 PM

philwrig · Hall of fame

Andy gave every indication at the Aussie Open that he would probably miss this one out.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

this certianly looks like it will be tough. would expect the dubs rubber to go our way, but getting the wins from the singles may be more taxing.

Hopefully Wardy's knee problem is not too serious, if he is out who would they go to? Baker's been injured right? i assume Josh would be next in line, although Leon has already looked past him rankings wise by taking Evo.