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Post Info TOPIC: Week 35 - US Open main draw (women)


County player

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RE: Week 35 - US Open main draw (women)


Mmm, I think I said I was all for vigorous debate...

Tennis is quite a simple game. The player who makes fewer errors, especially on important points, usually (almost always?) wins, and is the "better" player. Medina Garrigues is a better player than Robson. It would have needed MG to play well below her base level and Robson well above hers for Robson to win. Looking at individual points and saying "if only" strikes me as pointless. Or something, I've kinda forgotten what I'm trolling about ....

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Futures level

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Medina Garrigues is certainly a better MATCH player at this point. But Laura clearly has the potential and the weaponry to be better than the Spaniard.

Today, Laura was inconsistent and too inaccurate. Getting the attitude right is crucial for me because with Laura, getting mad seems to lose her focus and create even more unforced errors. With her game and her talent, Sharapova's attitude to the game should be her blueprint.

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Ratty wrote:

strikes me as pointless. Or something, I've kinda forgotten what I'm trolling about ....


 Reminds me of the Monty Python argument sketch; ultimately all rather disappointing



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Tennis legend

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Bally is scheduled to play third on court 11 tomorrow, about 2pm local time 7pm UK.

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LordBrownof wrote:

Medina Garrigues is certainly a better MATCH player at this point. But Laura clearly has the potential and the weaponry to be better than the Spaniard. 


Yes, yes, I know, I've outstayed my welcome and am getting (a bit?) tedious ...

BUT ... what on earth is the difference between "better match player" and "better player"? Surely, with respect, maybe you are (all?) falling into that trap of thinking that "talent" = "ball-striking ability". IT SO ISN'T!!! As I have said before, probably ad nauseam, there are no style points in tennis.

I would propose that Medina Garrigues' calm temperament and grind-everything-back game style are at least as great "talents" as Robson's undoubted ability to hit winners.

Let's think of another extreme. Ferrer and Tsonga. Ask anyone, Tsonga is much more talented than Ferrer, right? COBBLERS! Ferrer is (and has been for years) by a margin the "better" and therefore "more talented" player - it's just that his talents are less noticeable than Tsonga's.

And this isn't just an argument over semantics. It's what gets you to the top of any sport - relentless single-minded determination, which wins out over (ahem) talent, EVERY TIME!!!

But believe me, I like watching Robson a lot more than Medina Garrigues (ditto Tsonga rather than Ferrer). 



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I agree with Ratty that a player's talent is a combination of everything about their game, not just ball-striking ability, but I think the point people are trying to make here is that there is more potential for a young player with more natural shot-making ability do develop the right attitude and strategy as they get older than there is for a young player with the right attitude but without the same level of natural ability.

That doesn't mean the most natural players will necessarily fulfil their potential (think Safin, Gasquet, etc - a very long list), just that the upside is bigger if they do sort out their attitude, etc - Federer being the prime example.

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steven wrote:

I think the point people are trying to make here is that there is more potential for a young player with more natural shot-making ability do develop the right attitude and strategy as they get older than there is for a young player with the right attitude but without the same level of natural ability.


 Er, you mean like Wozniacki, Nadal, Jankovic, Davydenko, Ferrer, etc ...

smile  



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Ratty wrote:
LordBrownof wrote:

Medina Garrigues is certainly a better MATCH player at this point. But Laura clearly has the potential and the weaponry to be better than the Spaniard. 


Yes, yes, I know, I've outstayed my welcome and am getting (a bit?) tedious ...

BUT ... what on earth is the difference between "better match player" and "better player"? Surely, with respect, maybe you are (all?) falling into that trap of thinking that "talent" = "ball-striking ability". IT SO ISN'T!!! As I have said before, probably ad nauseam, there are no style points in tennis.

I would propose that Medina Garrigues' calm temperament and grind-everything-back game style are at least as great "talents" as Robson's undoubted ability to hit winners.

Let's think of another extreme. Ferrer and Tsonga. Ask anyone, Tsonga is much more talented than Ferrer, right? COBBLERS! Ferrer is (and has been for years) by a margin the "better" and therefore "more talented" player - it's just that his talents are less noticeable than Tsonga's.

And this isn't just an argument over semantics. It's what gets you to the top of any sport - relentless single-minded determination, which wins out over (ahem) talent, EVERY TIME!!!

But believe me, I like watching Robson a lot more than Medina Garrigues (ditto Tsonga rather than Ferrer). 


 

I'd pretty much agree with all that in isolation, Ratty, but in the context of discussing Laura you fundamentally miss the most important word from LordBrownof  -  it is not "match" but "potential"

Almost everyone would agree she has real weapons to her game.  She is still pretty young.  If she can develop focus, consistency and get fitter it is then that she will be "better" than a lot of much steadier players that are yes now better than her. For now, I agree with you, matches she and anyone else loses are generally because the opponent is better in whatever ways. It is a complete package, and different players have different things that make up their package. Laura is as yet very far from a complete package, and I anticipate far from what will be her final package.

If she can't get the requisite focus and consistency, yes she will struggle to make it, but if she can the potential is clearly great, and the ongoing journey to wherever she gets to should be interesting.

Relentless single-minded determination does not generally win out over "talent" *  every time. It wins over just talent.  Laura's mission must be to get rid of the "just"   ( sliightly unfair because she's shown herself not lacking in some determination, but you know what I mean )

* I share your view that "talent" comes in all guises, so really here I do mean ball striking / shot making ability.



-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 1st of September 2011 10:20:49 AM

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Challenger level

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I agree that most people wrongly use talent as a synonym for shot maker. It is just a sub division of talent.

Talent, imo, is physical ability + technical skill + work ethic + intangibles.

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Bally's match should be starting shortly on court 11.

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RCD


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Scheepers has just beaten Barthel (what a missed opportunity for Anne!), so Bally should be up soon.

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ATP level

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Bally serve first 1-0

0-15

15-15

15-30

15-40

30-40

2-0 Bally Breaks

0-15

15-15

15-30

30-30

40-30

40-40

adv Bally

3-0



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Futures level

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Bally has started very aggressively! Great to watch!

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ATP level

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15-0

30-0

40-0

3-1

0-15

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15-30

15-40

30-40

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adv kunestova

3-2



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Intermediate Club Player

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Bally 4-5*

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