Week 41 - Challengers - Tiburon CA, USA ($50,000) - Hard

mjd · Challenger qualifying

RE: Week 41 - Challengers - Tiburon CA, USA ($50,000) - Hard

indiana · Tennis legend

Jamie took 3 / 19 BPs in the match ( as against 4 / 12 ). That includes 1 / 7 in Set 2 and 1 / 10 in Set 3 ( holding 3 BPs in each of his last 2 return games )

I'm always a bit wary of saying folk have missed BP chances since they may have been well saved, but in this case so many chances....

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 12th of October 2010 10:12:43 PM

British_is_Best · County player

Gutted for Jamie, could have done with a win here to ease his slide down the rankings a little, one more shot next week in the US I believe and then probably the UK Challenger a couple of weeks after that before I imagine dropping down to Futures for a bit which probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for him

chavkev · Intermediate Club Player

I am going to level with you guys. I had a 9 leg accumulator with a load of international matches and three tennis matches from Tibouron, only seven quid. Kuznetsov to win was the last one. Part of me wanted Jamie to win, but the other part wanted the £170. Sorry to sound unsupportive, I do like Jamie, he has a great spirit and application towards his game.

I hope betting against a British player does not get me taken off the forum as I really like it! Invaluable source of information on the up and coming players.

indiana · Tennis legend

No problems Chavkev smile

Looking after yourself is fair enough.

Same with Witten, seems he looked after himself. I may personally have shown frustration and winked, but I'm actually struggling to condemn a guy looking out for himself as long as long as there wasn't anything truelly underhand about it. i.e. I don't include just deliberatey losing an FQR as truelly underhand ( if that's what he did and it was verrrry strange )

Tough on Cox, but I don't have contempt for Witten.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 12th of October 2010 10:05:26 PM

chavkev · Intermediate Club Player

indiana wrote:

No problems Chavkev

Looking after yourself is fair enough.

Same with Witten, seems he looked after himself. I may personally have shown frustration and winked, but I'm actually struggling to condemn a guy looking out for himself as long as long as there wasn't anything truelly underhand about it. i.e. I don't include just deliberatey losing an FQR as truelly underhand ( if that's what he did and it was verrrry strange )

Tough on Cox, but I don't have contempt for Witten.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 12th of October 2010 10:05:26 PM

Thanks Indiana, you talk a lot of sense. My only issue with Witten is that it looked so planned. He strolled the first set so easily, maybe he should have made it look better, pretend to twist an ankle or something.

In truth I suspect if most of us were in his situation we would be rolling on the floor like Jurgen Klinsmann. The only thing is, he would have a punchers chance against Young and Harrison, Young is in bad form (excluding his annihilation of the Belarussian mishap) and Harrison is back after a long break and some whispers about his fitness.

Maybe the challenge could have motivated him? or the challenger prize money! You are right, six of one......

indiana · Tennis legend

Ha ha. Yes, Jesse if you are going to just happen to lose, make a more convincing / cunning job of it smile

Maybe Kendrick's issues just became fully clear after their first set.

indiana · Tennis legend

British_is_Best wrote:

Gutted for Jamie, could have done with a win here to ease his slide down the rankings a little, one more shot next week in the US I believe and then probably the UK Challenger a couple of weeks after that before I imagine dropping down to Futures for a bit which probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for him

Yes, it probably will be the best thing for Jamie now. But I find it sad and actually rather unexpected that he has had so little success in Challengers this year with the main issue that he just hasn't got past L16s. The only ranking scores he has this year that are in double figures are from his two UK future runner-up spots in Glasgow in January and Manchester in July.

Is scheduled for a Challenger in California next week, would be so good if he could finally make a real mark, particularly after yesterday's frustrations.

steven · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Yes, it probably will be the best thing for Jamie now. But I find it sad and actually rather unexpected that he has had so little success in Challengers this year with the main issue that he just hasn't got past L16s. The only ranking scores he has this year that are in double figures are from his two UK future runner-up spots in Glasgow in January and Manchester in July.

Is scheduled for a Challenger in California next week, would be so good if he could finally make a real mark, particularly after yesterday's frustrations.

There's nothing new about this, I'm afraid. In 58 attempts in Challenger main draws, Jamie has only got past R2 five times and he hasn't done it at all since 2007 (12 R1 defeats and 12 R2 defeats since the start of 2008), when he reached the Waikoloa Final in January and the Joplin, Lexington and Knoxville SFs. He also reached a QF in Tasmania in 2006.

2010: 7 R1, 7 R2
2009: 1 R1, 3 R2
2008: 4 R1, 2 R2
2007: 13 R1, 2 R2, 3 SF, 1 RU
2006: 11 R1, 3 R2, 1 QF

TOTAL: 36 R1 defeats, 17 R2 defeats, 1 QF, 3 SFs and 1 RU

Much as it pains me to say it, he does seem to be one of those Brits (like, say, Hilton and Goodall) who can do very well at Futures level but can't quite hack it at Challenger level.

In fact, the only current GB players apart from Muzza who have made more than one Challenger Final are Boggo and Bloomers, while Wardy (along with a fit Boggo, our best bet by far in Challengers at the moment) and Evo are the only Brits other than Boggo and Muzza to have won a Challenger since Big Arv won Ho Chi Minh in Feb 2004.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

steven wrote:

while Wardy (along with a fit Boggo, our best bet by far in Challengers at the moment) and Evo are the only Brits other than Boggo and Muzza to have won a Challenger since Big Arv won Ho Chi Minh in Feb 2004.

Which finals did blooms make?

also how is a fit Boggo someone other than Boggo to have won a challenger since Big Arvs biggrin

But it's a shame for JB that he can't seem to find consistecny (ok he's got consistency but i'm not talking about Boggo at Wimby consistency) at a higher level. how do the guys he's losing to in challengers compare with the guys he's beating at futures?

steven · Tennis legend

Count Zero wrote:

steven wrote:

while Wardy (along with a fit Boggo, our best bet by far in Challengers at the moment) and Evo are the only Brits other than Boggo and Muzza to have won a Challenger since Big Arv won Ho Chi Minh in Feb 2004.

Which finals did blooms make?

also how is a fit Boggo someone other than Boggo to have won a challenger since Big Arvs
1) Wrexham 2007 (L to Pyzysiezny) and Manchester 2008 (lost to Rehnquist)

2) Read it without the bracketed bit and it makes sense

Count Zero · Tennis legend

Lol, i was teasing, and yes i did see the earlier mistake :)

But what about the type of players he's losing too, in your opinion is it that they are a step up or is it something else? With such differing records could it almost be some kinda of mental block?

steven · Tennis legend

Count Zero wrote:
But what about the type of players he's losing too, in your opinion is it that they are a step up or is it something else? With such differing records could it almost be some kinda of mental block?

Most of his losses in Challengers have been to decent Challenger level players , quite a few oh whom have been in or on the edge of the top 100 during their careers.

Looking at the H2Hs for those he lost to in Challenger main draws in 2010, he is 1-1 against three of them and in each case his own win came at a lower level - Sorensen (Future 2005), Crugnola (Future 2008) and Smyczek (Ch. Q 2006), but that could just as easily mean that they have overtaken him during his recovery from illness as that he has any kind of mental block.

chavkev · Intermediate Club Player

Count Zero wrote:
But what about the type of players he's losing too, in your opinion is it that they are a step up or is it something else? With such differing records could it almost be some kinda of mental block?
Most of his losses in Challengers have been to decent Challenger level players , quite a few oh whom have been in or on the edge of the top 100 during their careers.

Looking at the H2Hs for those he lost to in Challenger main draws in 2010, he is 1-1 against three of them and in each case his own win came at a lower level - Sorensen (Future 2005), Crugnola (Future 2008) and Smyczek (Ch. Q 2006), but that could just as easily mean that they have overtaken him during his recovery from illness as that he has any kind of mental block.

I can definitely vouch for Smyczek overtaking him, this has been the best year of his career so far. He will be looking to make another push at the start of next year to get up to say 100/120 in the rankings.

The problem with Jamie, is that he has no real weapons to hurt anyone. He needs to play a consistent game to induce errors in his opponents. Then he needs to reduce the errors he makes himself. Ironically given his previous role with the LTA, IMHO Brad Gilbert would probably be ideal for him.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

R1: Jamie Baker & Kevin Kim (USA) defeated (WC) Brett Joelson & Nicholas Monroe (USA/USA) by 7-6(5) 6-4 smile

QF: (1) Carsten Ball & Chris Guccione (AUS/AUS) vs Jamie Baker & Kevin Kim (USA)