Week 37 - Futures - Great Britain F14 (10k) - Nottingham - Hard

Salmon · Tennis legend

RE: Week 37 - Futures - Great Britain F14 (10k) - Nottingham - Hard

steven · Tennis legend

SF: (1) Dan Evans WR 358 v (4) Rudy Coco (FRA) WR 545

H2H: 1-0, Evo won 4 & 2 at the same venue in 2008.

SF: (2) Dan Cox WR 486 v (3) Josh Milton WR 489

H2H: 2-3, all in straight sets, all in qualifying draws, as follows:

Dan won 3 & 3, Nottm Fut 2006 on outdoor hard
Josh won won 5 & 2, Jersey Fut 2007 on indoor hard
Josh won 2 & 4, Torre Pacheco (ESP) Fut 2008 on clay
Dan won 3 & 4, Antalya (TUR) Fut 2008 on clay
Josh won 6 & 3, Nottm Ch 2010 on grass

So they're 1-1 on hard, 1-1 at this venue, ranked just 3 places apart (though in reality Dan is more like 50 places ahead after last week) and both in good form - should be a great match ... except from the above you'd have to bet it won't go to 3 sets. (ah, now it will wink

)

indiana · Tennis legend

I'd always predict that any best of 3 set match won't go to 3 sets. I've won competitions in the past just always predicting all my winners win in straight sets smile

Anyway, yes, should be a good a match. Both in good form, with no recent H-H on hard.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Outstanding doubles QF results:

QF: (1) Sean Thornley & Marcus Willis WR 1178 defeated Richard Gabb & Ashley Hewitt UNR by 1 & 4
QF: Lewis Burton & Dan Evans UNR defeated (3) Burnham Arlidge & Chris Priddle WR 2446 by 2-6 6-0 [10-8]
QF: Clemens Breuss & Jannis Liniger (AUT/SUI) UNR lost to (2) Tuna Altuna & Yakuto Niki (TUR/JPN) WR 2107 by 5 & 4

SF: (1) Sean Thornley & Marcus Willis WR 1178 defeated Andrew Gregory & Ben Pritchard UNR by 4 & 3
SF: Lewis Burton & Dan Evans defeated (2) Tuna Altuna & Yakuto Niki (TUR/JPN) WR 2107 by 3 & 4 biggrin

Final: (1) Sean Thornley & Marcus Willis WR 1178 vs Lewis Burton & Dan Evans UNR

Another all-Brit final! Amazing! smile

Salmon · Tennis legend

Josh wrote:

I kept an eye on their 2nd set TB but clearly not closely enough as I didn't notice he was only hitting forehands! 5'2 is a huge exaggeration, 5'7 or 8 is more accurate I think.

Yes. Plus look at last week's pic on the LTA site...

Evans seems to be only slightly taller than Coxy, who is not standing totally upright. I personally think Hewitt was of a similar height, so I don't think it'll be a factor.

steven · Tennis legend

I love the way it looks like they've been told they're not allowed within 10 feet of each other to stop them coming to blows

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

I think that height is a major factor. I've always noticed how tall all the players seem at Wimbledon qualifiers, both men and women. If I had nothing to do for the next week, I'd put all the top 100 player data for the last 20 years into a spread sheet and produce some graphs. I bet the average height is over 6'.

Being short certainly affects the type of game you have - if you're short as Dan Cox, you don't have levers long enough to hit the ball hard.

Mark Hilton was only 5'7" - he felt his lack of height was a problem, and Tim Henman said at the end of his career that he would like to be taller and heavier.

steve

Simmy26 · Lower Club Player

Interesting to hear feedback on Nick Rosenzweig. As I said in a thread many moons ago Nick is actually based in Dundee and may look to represent GB In the future. He has certainly had a decent season and is now looking to break the top 800.

Shhh · Challenger level

Having less height that an opponent would be a disadvantage more times than not, there are exceptions of course. What does a player do if he is only 5' 6", or 5' 8" though?

The most important 6" on a players body is of course the distance between their ears (what else!) and, if they have got that attitude of proving themsleves to go with whatever skills they pocess they can go a long way. The old cliche of "Its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" seems most apt.

Dan Cox for example seems to really fit and focused and heading strongly up the rankings. I am sure he has trained his rear end off but its his attitude thats made him do that and I suspect his attitude that is turning losses into wins at the moment.

indiana · Tennis legend

Salmon wrote:

Evans seems to be only slightly taller than Coxy, who is not standing totally upright. I personally think Hewitt was of a similar height, so I don't think it'll be a factor.

Yes that looks about right if you take Cox as 5 foot 7 since I undrerstood Evans to be 5 foot 9.

Sources I see say that Hewitt is 5 foot 11 which again is about what I thought. He really isn't that short a guy,. He just probably seems short comparative to many other top players. As stevemcqueen said, the top players are on average pretty big.

Personally I cannot believe that being in around the 5 foot 7 to 9 range ( and possibly a bit more, I wonder if Hewitt even wouldn't have preferred to be slightly taller ) can't be some disadvantage. As I said before possibly not as much as some people think, but all else being equal a disadvantage nonetheless. Do all the work you can re fitness and movement, be great in the 6 inches between the ears but ultimatelty that annoying lack of height I feel will restrict a player to soime degree from what would be their ultimate potential if they were taller and still had the other attributes in place.

Dan Cox's attitude and work ethic do seem great though and I hope his rise up the rankings will continue. All anyone can ultimately ask is you make the best of what natural and physical attributes you have. Hopefully some others take this on board and think they could do at least what he is now doing.

Salmon · Tennis legend

I don't think Hewitt is that tall. Haha, just how many times have I posted the thing that I'll post now...

This is from an old thread on this board -

The only assumption we make is that no one lies about their height in a negative way (that is, a 6 foot 5 player claiming to be 6 foot 2).

Take the 2001 pic. The three guys on the left, Rafter, Haas and Kafelnikov, are of the same height roughly but just look at what the ATP site gives us -

Kafelnikov - 6' 3''
Haas - 6' 2''
Rafter - 6'1''

Even if we take Rafter to be 6'1'', Grosjean comes to be no better than 5'5'' or 5'6''.

But ATP site says: 5' 9''

And Hewitt will be something like 5'7'' or 5'8''. But ATP site says - 5' 11!

Here's the old thread, if anybody wants more such examples. The links to pics there won't work, of course.

http://britishtennis.activeboard.com/index.spark?aBID=61841&p=3&topicID=19602639&page=5&sort=oldestFirst

indiana · Tennis legend

Thanks, Salmon, I had a read of that previous thread and do take on board that some heights are no doubt figments of the players' vivid imaginations smile

However, I still maintain that lack of height must be some disadvantage.

You can't "make up" for that lack of height, what you can do is everything in your power to compensate for it, but surely, if you are let's say 5 foot 9 or less, you would still be a more successful player if you were taller Maybe some really tall players suffer re movement but otherwise as I say it's more doing everything in your power to compensate.

Let's for arguement sake include Lleyton in the shorties, then he has done wonderfully well at times in his career. But maybe he would have done better if he had been a little taller. Shorter players having relative success, or indeed Grand Slam success, such as Lleyton, doesn't by any means disprove my arguement.

It doesn't change the facts that the taller players have advantages in serve, in reach by having longer levers, and can hit the ball higher from the ground ( which is an advantage both in coping with a high bouncing ball and in giving them effectively a bigger taget area for their shots )

Interesting discussion.

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 17th of September 2010 11:01:26 AM

Salmon · Tennis legend

We'll never know, isn't it? Maybe Lleyton would try to play very differently if he were 6' 4''? Or maybe he wouldn't fight like a pit bull if he could dominate players with his strokes in his younger days? We'll never know the answer.

I am not denying that being of optimum height is an advantage. What I always mean during these discussions is that there are some players who achieved great things without being particularly tall, so there's no reason to believe that some more cannot do it.

chavkev · Intermediate Club Player

I think that the Rochus brothers need to be what the shorter players such as Cox and Evans aspire to. Admittedly it is not very exciting, but you can get a good living and some fantastic experiences from being a perennial fixture in the top 100.

Plus players such as Rochus live for the 250 events. Winning just one of these events is great income. Plus in this country a top 100 player would have a whole ton of sponsors. Everyone likes to root for the little guy (and that is coming from a guy who is 6"0)

As long as they come to terms with the fact that they are probably not going to be grand slam or masters winners, they can enjoy a really good career in the game.

Salmon · Tennis legend

No harm in dreaming, I say. I think it's a bit pointless to have a ceiling on your ambitions - they should just keep trying to improve their game all the time and become the best they can.

Random, but Berankis will break into the top 100 soon. Top 100 at the age of 20, and he's near about the same height as Coxy and Evo...