David Lloyd on Roger Draper

Count Zero · Tennis legend

RE: David Lloyd on Roger Draper

steven · Tennis legend

Osomec makes lots of good points there, and it's always been very clear that the LTA is expected to do everything over here in a way that isn't true of other countries, though partly it's the LTA's own fault for creating that perception.

The advertising of tournaments below the top level is very patchy (from borderline acceptable at e.g. Glasgow to woeful at most of the other tournaments) and you can be sure that if tournaments really had to attract sponsors, it would be a heck of a lot better, because sponsors aren't going to back tournaments that have no spectators. I think the lower level tournaments unavoidably suffer from the fact that we have so many top level tournaments too - in countries that only have Challengers, Challengers are a very big event!

I don't know how the tennis courts in France are funded, but they seem to be everywhere - free, reasonably well-maintained courts in virtually every town and village, no doubt in every school, and seemingly courts for every block of flats too - well, every middle class block of flats anyway ...

I do think there need to be less 'barriers' to taking part in this country, but I too think tennis is probably a predominantly 'middle class' game in most if not all countries, so I don't think finding a 'working class hero' is the be all and end all, as long as the door is left open to anyone with that potential and they are welcomed.

Of course, even if tennis became a lot more open to people from all walks of life, it would be a quarter of a century before the media cottoned on, and they're the ones that influence the perception of people who haven't tried tennis in the first place.

In addition, you can see why kids would get put off playing tennis when the media hardly ever report the successes and glory in joking about what failures all of our players supposedly are.

clayfan · Lower Club Player

Many good points being made about coaching etc. However we have to realise that tennis is in competition with many other sports for the rather meagre number of athleltes Britain produces. David Lloyd pointed out that many of our top players have had a foreign or Scottish input. England with all its population and facilities has been producing few indigenous top players.

I have always blamed Cricket for this. It is the main summer sport in England and in English schools. It seems to be "cooler" to play cricket rather than tennis. Schools are more geared up to coaching it. Much as I loved Dan Maskell, the only contact people had with tennis was hearing his "Oh I say" plummy tones at Wimbledon. It sent the wrong image which tennis in Britain is still lumbered with. As a result we have a tiny pool of aspiring players to pick from compared with other countries.

No amount of money, coaching or facilities can make up for a broad base of a large number of kids playing tennis. The Scottish paper the Daily Record reported today that in the last 5 years alone we have lost 23.000 public park courts in the UK and now have only 10,000. This surley can't be right? It is these entry level facilities which are important to ecouraging youngsters to take up a racket in the first place. Just for fun with their mates. The facilities which are provided tend to be far more expensive than most children can afford. And far more regimented, which many children from poorer backgrounds don't like either. And they have to bring their own rackets and balls. We need schools to take tennis more seriously and have access to facilities.

It is all about getting them in, and keeping up their enthusiasm and dedication. We very nearly lost Andy Murray to football. He could now be preparing for Hibs next match against Ross County. What a waste! We would then be moaning about Britain's top player being overlooked for the Davis Cup!

Roger Draper is there to run the business end. I can't see how he should resign only a few years into the job. Just David Lloyd deflecting blame from his brother?

Count Zero · Tennis legend

clay fan, i think at some point boggo considered football too!

imagine where we would be without the pair of them!!

but your points are all spot on.

The Knight · Challenger qualifying

yeh that's a good point about tennis being a middle class sport in most countries...you only have to look through the ATP biographys of most the the top guys and their parents tend to be lawyers, doctors, engineers and the like

i think rugby is also to blame, as even though it doesn't compete at the same time of year, many of the most athletic younger guys (ie about 6'2 and rapid as hell) tend to be shoehorned into rugby and it's quite hard to play both seriously as they ask you to have very different body shapes for either sport

i just think in general we have too many middle class sports, we seem to stretch ourselves thin trying to be world-beaters in each one! i think just for that respect it's good for us to try and make the sport more attractive to working class youngsters

Count Zero · Tennis legend

saw this post on a bbc blog:

The idea that other countries elite tennis players are street kids used to scrapping it out is ludicrous. As he mentioned, you can be sure that most if not all Argentinian players come from comfortable backgrounds and I would challenge anyone to show me a country where this is not the case. The Williams sisters are an anomaly, lucky freaks of nature like Federer who have got an almost irrepressible talent. No, I have the theory that we are so flooded with football coverage (including endless tittle tattle during the increasingly brief off season) that kids don't even have the ambition to be world class tennis players. Plus, they're no mugs...they know tennis requires more dedication than almost any sport. Four hours per day grooving a particular shot? A shattering 5 set match followed by another two days later? No thank you! I'd be interested to see how much practice footballers do(and is it mind numbing)and how many miles they run in a year. No, tennis is hard work and for all that effort you receive a fraction of the footballers' easy money and little celebrity status. No, I think we've dug ourselves too deep a cultural hole to pull ourselves out of.

i have highlighted the part that i feel realy is at the heart of the problem.

according to the ATP Boggo's career earnings are just over $600k, over the 8 years he has been a pro thats $75k (not inc tax either). not a bad amount, but i would compared that to a footballer of Alex's level and i'm sure the difference would be huge, especially as its so often overlooked how high the costs of tennis are, say compared to a sport like football where i doubt the players have many additional costs - i am sure the clubs pay for travel etc.

baxi2 · Lower Club Player

It will cost Boggo at least $75k a year to play

clayfan · Lower Club Player

I often wonder about the prize money structure in Men's tennis. Reach the top 100 or 150 at a push and you are earning serious money, and the very top players are getting a fortune. Who was it instigated the idea that prize money has to double as each round progresses? Incidently when I was a kid, they were not allowed to get prize money at all!

By comparison the Challenger ranks and below receive a derisery amount for their efforts. If they are hopeful of breaking into the big time, then that's fine, but most players do not progress and spend the best years of their lives playing second rate tournaments with nothing to show for it in the end. What motivates players to carry on and not embark on a more profitable carreer? Or choose a more profitable sport? At times we do expect too much from players who are some way down the rankings, largely because there is no one much else to take an interest in.

Increasingly, the vast amount of money in tennis is being concentrated in the hands of a limited elite of 20 players or so. They are only interested in playing grand slams and a few masters series tournaments. They are even trying to condense the Davis Cup into a weeks tournament. Not much given in return until it comes to the finals of televised slams. So you are right, it is only players with a secure financial background who can indulge in playing the lesser circuits. But for countries who do trawl a wider net and have a more egalitarian view of sport, such as the eastern European countries, they do acheive far greater success.

Ratty · County player

I'd be interested to see how much practice footballers do(and is it mind numbing)and how many miles they run in a year. No, tennis is hard work and for all that effort you receive a fraction of the footballers' easy money and little celebrity status.

Good point, I was frankly amazed to see what poor physical condition John Terry is in - check out these pictures, he has no muscle definition at all. Tennis pros are without exception (well, maybe not Nalbandian) absolutely ripped.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1250591/Were-just-love-John-Terry-plans-Valentines-Day-Toni-Poole-forget.html

Vandenburg · Futures level

why does still no one understand the problem! momey pumping isnt going to solve it! money is the casue of the problem in that only posh toffs from guildford can join clubs

i mean hypothet, im a lad from brixton, very working class, am i guna join a tennis club in london!

no tennis and its calls problem will never change in this nation.