The next DC captain ... (update: JL has now resigned)

clayfan · Lower Club Player

RE: The next DC captain ... (update: JL has now resigned)

Ratty · County player

clayfan wrote:

In truth there were few big names to choose from.

I am completely sceptical about this "you need a coach who knows what's it's like to win at the highest level" bullsh*t.

So, as self-appointed chief myth debunker, I will propose the hypothesis that "The ability of a tennis coach is entirely unrelated to his (*) previous ability as a player."

It's a bit tricky to research past successful Davis Cup captains. I know that Albert Costa is captain of the Spanish team, who have been very successful. But they probably would have been just as successful with me as the captain.

So let's look at something a bit more indirect. Do top 10 ATP/WTA players use coaches who were previously top players?

With WTA, the answer is a resounding "No". Only 1 (Safina) of the current top 10 has a coach who was previously a top 100 player - Zelko Krajan, who had a CH of a less-than-thrilling 88. The majority have a parent as coach.

With ATP, the answer is a bit more ambiguous (Federer, Nadal, Murray, Davydenko, Tsonga - No; Roddick, Soderling, Del Potro - Yes; Cilic, Djokovic - sort of), but there is still most definitely no positive correlation.

And the fact that the GOAT has not had a coach at all for several years has always made me wonder what a coach actually does, apart from make the travel arrangements ...

(*) why are there no women coaches, apart from mothers?

johnnylad · Tennis legend

Murray has has a lot fd direct influence from (some good) former players but you're dead right - I think that was a JL parting shot - you have to have played to have captained.

Look at footabll - I'd rather thave Moyes, Ferguson, Mourinho or Wenger in charge of my team than Southgate, Robson, Keane or Zola.

philwrig · Hall of fame

Was it widely reported that JL received £200,000 from the LTA when he resigned ?

Ratty · County player

Ratty wrote:
The people who would have been our other top 100 tennis players are in the England cricket team. This is no joke, the skills of a batsman and a tennis player are very similar.

(Copyright Ratty, 18 March 2010)

And here's what Tim Henman had to say in the Telegraph yesterday:

You have to take the ones who are in the first XI in football, the first XV in rugby and the first XI in cricket, to get them playing tennis. They are the ones who have the athletic ability and hand-eye co-ordination."

I shall expect my cheque in the post ..........

smile

Salmon · Tennis legend

I hope the LTA give the following wild cards the next time when ODIs are going on - Anderson, Prior, Cook, Trott and Bell.

Fascinating point and something that I had never thought of. But what's equally interesting is that even though tennis players and batsmen often came from the same social strata (at least in the pre war days) there is a significant lack of people who were successful at both. I am quite sure that is there no one who even comes near being the equivalent of a Fred Perry or Compton but is there anyone out there who has played a Slam and a Test match?

Of course, Tony Wilding is one tennis legend who also played FC cricket. Before winning six Grand Slams and four Davis Cups, and losing the chance to add to it after being killed in action Neuve Chappelle in 1915, Wilding had also done well in the two FC games he had played. But the standard of FC cricket in NZ in those days can't have been any better than university level in England or Australia so while it's impressive it is not something spectacular.

Then there are a few people who have played international cricket and Davis Cup, but again, none of them were in a period when their DC teams were anything strong.

So I do see the point regarding hand-eye coordination but there must be something else there.

indiana · Tennis legend

But of course as we have moved through time increasingly difficult to be highly successful at both tennis and another main sport. In the present day really impossible, and still very difficult in the past. The lack of players who have really achieved at both is in no way surprising.

Trick is to nick them into tennis from the 1st teams of other sports at a ( very ? ) young age.

How ? Ah that's the problem. I suggest you certainly need the facilties generally freely / cheaply available and somehow have to inspire them to at least come try.

Ratty · County player

The other issue is of course that's is much easier to make a living at cricket & rugby, the other "posh" sports. If Boggo had been the Brit no 2 in cricket, he would have been earning £millions pa for several years.

Tennis is a pretty poor career choice in that sense, and it also tends to have a shorter time span as well - ie 10 years is probably the limit of most careers.

-- Edited by Ratty on Friday 17th of June 2011 11:34:32 AM

Salmon · Tennis legend

In the modern era, as you say, it's nearly impossible. Not just tennis and cricket, it's nearly impossible to simultaneously play two major sports at the highest level. Even if you overcome the schedule demands and what not, the authorities won't allow you to do so simply for injury prevention.

But I think it was surely possible in the past, especially in the amateur era. Particularly considering there were dozens of dual internationals in cricket and rugby, two sports which require rather distinct skill sets.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Ratty wrote:
The other issue is of course that's is much easier to make a living at cricket & rugby, the other "posh" sports. If Boggo had been the Brit no 2 in cricket, he would have been earning £millions pa for several years.

Tennis is a pretty poor career choice in that sense, and it also tends to have a shorter time span as well - ie 10 years is probably the limit of most careers.

Indeed. Rory Hamilton-Brown, despite not being one of the top 50 players in England in my opinion (and I'm a fan), was said to be on a six figure salary and Gareth Batty on 90K. Plus in the off season, you get five months off to look after your X-Mas tree business or whatever.

So it's sad that in tennis, which is probably second only to football in terms of countries where it's popular, there are what... around 300 men who make ends meet (I'm including doubles)?

I suppose the fans are to "blame" here more than authorities. How many people would actually turn up to watch a Futures? Rather... how many people know that Futures exist? People would much rather worship the 15th best player in the 30th best club in the world, rather than give 2 hours of their time to the 100th best player in an individual sport.

eblunt · Club Coach

Salmon wrote:
I hope the LTA give the following wild cards the next time when ODIs are going on - Anderson, Prior, Cook, Trott and Bell.

Fascinating point and something that I had never thought of. But what's equally interesting is that even though tennis players and batsmen often came from the same social strata (at least in the pre war days) there is a significant lack of people who were successful at both. I am quite sure that is there no one who even comes near being the equivalent of a Fred Perry or Compton but is there anyone out there who has played a Slam and a Test match?

Of course, Tony Wilding is one tennis legend who also played FC cricket. Before winning six Grand Slams and four Davis Cups, and losing the chance to add to it after being killed in action Neuve Chappelle in 1915, Wilding had also done well in the two FC games he had played. But the standard of FC cricket in NZ in those days can't have been any better than university level in England or Australia so while it's impressive it is not something spectacular.

Then there are a few people who have played international cricket and Davis Cup, but again, none of them were in a period when their DC teams were anything strong.

So I do see the point regarding hand-eye coordination but there must be something else there.

Some of that is due to the season of the sport. Cricket and soccer was a more common mix, because you play one during summer and the other in winter. Not really so with cricket/tennis, since in the past , with less travel and indoor venues, tennis would have been considered a summer sport. And in the modern era, tennis bacme a true 11 month season sport, so you couldn't mix it with anything, whilst even up to relatively recently you still had soccer/cricket players (balderstone/botham etc)

johnnylad · Tennis legend

Turns out Watson is better than Lineker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ75sskp0Mc

What a pointless waste of money that was by the way

IamAlex · Social player

johnnylad wrote:
Murray has has a lot fd direct influence from (some good) former players but you're dead right - I think that was a JL parting shot - you have to have played to have captained. Look at footabll - I'd rather thave Moyes, Ferguson, Mourinho or Wenger in charge of my team than Southgate, Robson, Keane or Zola.

Ferguson was actually a decent player

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

BBCKheredine @BBCKheredine 3h3 hours ago

Confirmation just in that @LeonSmith is Scottish Tennis's new Performance Director, in addition to his current roles