Davis Cup - Euro Africa Zone Group II relegation play-off - GBR v Turkey, 9-11 July 2010

Josh · Challenger level

RE: Davis Cup - Euro Africa Zone Group II relegation play-off - GBR v Turkey, 9-11 July 2010

Josh · Challenger level

Also can someone explain why the match would be home if we lost and away if we won regardless of the IRE-TUR result??

I always thought they alternated between home and away, with a coin toss if its the first meeting.

indiana · Tennis legend

Apparently they did all the coin tossing some time ago for theoretical upcoming matches and even did it twice where relevant for potential matches of winners and potential matches of losers.

Hence we knew we were away to Ireland / Turkey if it was a match between winners and home if it was a losers' match.

Steven explains it all ( with some chart I believe of what all the predetermined and coin toss options were ) somewhere in the Lithuania v GB thread.

-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 7th of March 2010 10:00:13 PM

steven · Tennis legend

Josh wrote:

Also can someone explain why the match would be home if we lost and away if we won regardless of the IRE-TUR result??

I always thought they alternated between home and away, with a coin toss if its the first meeting.

It's the first time we've played either country since 1970 (which is when the alternating rule starts from) and they had done all the coin tosses at the original draw - see http://www.daviscup.com/shared/pdfs/DC2010-COG-EA-G2.pdf

Josh · Challenger level

So why is it only our 4 team bracket and Denmark/Cyprus where the round was specific round was stipulated? Almost every potential tie will be played in the country regardless of if its 2nd round or relegation play off, except ours.

steven · Tennis legend

Josh wrote:

So why is it only our 4 team bracket and Denmark/Cyprus where the round was specific round was stipulated? Almost every potential tie will be played in the country regardless of if its 2nd round or relegation play off, except ours.

1) You can ignore the *s on black backgrounds - the black background means that the tie could not happen this year because the teams were in opposite halves of the draw.

2) IRL-LTU has both rounds specified as well.

3) If any other ties that could occur in two different rounds don't have alternative home countries depending on the round, I assume it means that the same team would have played at home in either case, either based on the alternating rule or because both coin tosses went the same way.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

Other than Ilhan, whose record on grass is just 2-3 (as Queens qualies last year was indoors), no other ranked Turkish player has ever played on a grass court, so it might not be the worst idea to have on the surface, although in theory, it shouldn't make too much difference where we play the tie.

I'd imagine given the lowly nature of the tie they won't be looking for a massive capacity anywhere so something like number one court at Wimbledon or Birmingham will be ruled out because of that.

Can't see it going back to Liverpool straight away, so that leaves another trip to Scotland, Nottingham, or Eastbourne as the realistic options.

steven · Tennis legend

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if grass would be the best option, even if Turkey have very little experience on it. Maybe outdoor or indoor hard would be better (depending on who we field and whether they have a big server to play against us) - anything to minimise the chance of shock results.

Not playing on grass would of course open up lots of other possible venues.

Josh · Challenger level

I included IRL-LTU in our little bracket, but didn't make the connection that just because it would be our first time playing doesn't make it the same for other potential matches.

Would it not be a bit of a risk playing it outdoors, we've been lucky twice in September so it has to rain sometime.

steven · Tennis legend

Someone on AM.com asked about the relative rankings of Boggo and his opponents in the ties he has played in, so I might as well paste the answer in here too:

2003 (live) when WR 457 - L Lleyton HEWITT WR 1 by 5-7 1-6 2-6
2003 (dead) when WR 457 - [B]W[/B] Todd WOODBRIDGE UNR (singles CH 19 but by then a doubles specialist) by 6-2 7-6(4)
2005 (live) when WR 173 - L Noam OKUN WR 153 by 6-7(3) 2-6 2-6
2006 (live) when WR 148 & injured - L Noam OKUN WR 270 by 4-6 5-7 2-6
2008 (live) when WR 188 - L Agustin CALLERI WR 41 by 3-6 1-6 1-6
2008 (dead) when WR 188 - L Jose ACASUSO WR 50 by 5-7 5-7
2008 (live) when WR 162 - L Jurgen MELZER WR 41 by 6-3 6-7(3) 2-6 1-6
2008 (live) when WR 162 & slightly injured - L to Alexander PEYA WR 164 by 6-2 4-6 4-6 2-6

He did well when a long way from home in Australia, taking the then world no. 1 Lleyton Hewitt to 7-5 in the 1st set and winning a dead rubber against a former top 20 player when Alex himself was ranked outside the top 400.

The only truly horrific loss that wasn't at least partially injury-related was the first one to Okun at Ramat Hasharon, when he disintegrated mentally after losing a tight 1st set.

Of the other 6 losses, four were against top 50 players and the other two were against players ranked around the same level as him when he was injured.

The only times he has lost to a lower-ranked player in DC was against Peya (ranked just 2 places below him) and before he started being badly hampered by the injury in that match (indeed, before Peya noticed and started playing accordingly very intelligently), he seemed to have his number, and to Okun the second time, when he picked up an injury during the match that kept him out for a while afterwards.

So, not a great record obviously, but not as bad as it's made out to be by JL and the press. Sadly it compares very favourably with Evo's record, and I don't even think he should be consigned to the DC dustbin - that doesn't mean he should be selected for every tie either, just not barred from selection to appease the press.

Btw good to see that JL didn't hang Evo out to dry in the presser, maybe he's learning ...

Edit: thanks for correcting my memory, Count - I've made a couple of small amendments to the above and I'll change the AM.com post the same way.

-- Edited by steven on Monday 8th of March 2010 12:19:51 PM

Count Zero · Tennis legend

Okun was ranked lower in 06 as well Steven.

But I think the list certianly highlights the difference in lvl Boggo has been asked to perform at. all those players have CH's inside the top 100.

its also notable that only once has Alex played back to back ties(and he wouldn't have played vs Argentina if Andy had not pulled out, and probably vs Austria had Baker been fit).

i think a lot of the difference is that Alex doesn't show his emotions. unfortunately the general public only get to see alex's televised matches, most of which he loses, and its taken as not caring that he loses. But we have seen even when he wins its actually hard to tell if he has won or lost. no fist pumps etc, no shouting out.

As for the Turkey tie, i know after wimby alex will be heading to the states (esp now Manchester ch is gone) and will be planning on mixing up ATPQ's with challengers. i don't know how this tie will fit in with that, but really Alex will have to put his singles 1st. GB turned their back on him for 3 successive ties, the LTA dropped him from their elite team too, so he owes nothing in that regard. He has told me he wants to play more atp's this year, in his own words ' i dont want to play challengers for the rest of my life!'

indiana · Tennis legend

Very interesting list, Steven.

OK, the first Okun loss was pretty bad, but he was higher ranked at the time. So Boggo has never lost to a higher ramked player while uninjured !

Even if he had, he's got a better chance against most players than guys ranked around 250.

The Okun performance though was still pretty bad. But overall his record really isn't that grim allowing for who he has played. Yet he is cast into the Davis Cup wilderness by JL when I think most of us would pretty much say we'd be awaiting a match with Ireland if he had been in Lithuania.

For that alone JL needs condemned. But I guess enough other reasons. Has he resigned yet ??!

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 8th of March 2010 11:32:59 AM

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

I don't think he has resigned yet, but according to the Times the LTA have approached Greg and asked if he is interested (which we know he is) so maybe it is going to be a case of "walk or be pushed".

Count Zero · Tennis legend

just to clear up the situation on the injuries, Boggo wasn't injured at the start of the Eastbourne Okun match, but picked it up during the match, some kinda of groin injury which kept him out for a fair while afterwards. he was injured prior to the start of the Peya match (hamstring), which as the match progressed got worse.

The 1st Okun match was away, and versus an extremely hostile crowd, it was a bad loss though and i'm sure Alex accepts that. But i think what also hurt him was the lack of support he received from the rest of the team.

Most of the media seem to suggest he loses as he cant handle the pressure, its almost saying that he would have won all those matches (and all his Wimby matches as well it would) seem if he could. i dont think pressure caused the loses to Hewitt, Calleri or Melzer, Federer, Nadal, Berdych.

indiana · Tennis legend

Boggo does seem to suffer from a lack of support generally.

From some parts of the media I can understand, but there is much of the media that should know better and maybe do ( but prefer to say otherwise for their own agenda ). With the general public, as you say, just maybe seeing Wimbledon and being fed this stuff of a perennial Wimbledon and Davis Cup loser, I can understand how some may just think he can't hack it.

Those really in the game like JL must know his true abilities, but if JL has pandered to others then in my view that is one of his worse faults, and I saw an apt quote ( passed on by Rusedski's twitter smile

) that you will feel worse if you fail with a team that is not truelly yours. If he genuinely just doesn't rate Boggo then he is simply a fool.

If say Rusedski is annointed and wants him on board vs Turkey, I personally wish Boggo would say yes. But I can perfectly understand why he might not.

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 8th of March 2010 11:50:36 AM