Sports Personality of the year?

Drew · Dec 14, 2009

RE: Sports Personality of the year?

Ratty · County player

Oh praise the lord (if she existed) ... could this be the beginning of the end for that tedious Champagne Charlie celebration of conspicuous consumption - Formula 1 !!!

And it's not even a sport, either on the Ratty definition of: Requires athleticism and has an objective scoring system;

or the witty definition: Can you smoke while doing it?

indiana · Tennis legend

Actually, Formula One drivers as a whole are seriously fit athletes.

In a Grand Prix lasting up to two hours F1 drivers face constant, punishing physical demands while also maintaining unrelenting concentration and razor-sharp reactions.

Quite a few of them in time out take part in such as triathlons and marathons given they are seriously fit and have to maintain that fitness.

I know the politics and sometimes the so-called boring races puts some folk off, and while it doesn't particularly put me off, I can see that point of view. But to me lack of athleticism is a non starter. I'd take a bunch of Formula One drivers to beat say international cricketers anytime at any serious test of fitness. Plenty time for puffing that cigarette at cricket too smile

Oh, and I do consider cricket a sport in case anyone thinks otherwise.

I wouldn't have picked Jenson Button to win because he slightly crawled over the line after his first part of the season and I do also recognise a good car was involved too, a combination of man and machine that the many many Formula 1 lovers accept and enjoy.

By the way, I'm not sure what's not objective about the scoring system ( 1st to 8th being 10 pts, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ) ? Thank gawd Bernie Ecclestone didn't manage to change it to his Gold, Silver, Bronze idea which would have had Button as champion far before the end of the season, and I worry that he's talking again about changing it.

One might argue football isn't objective with its points : 3 points for a win, but 1 point each if you draw a match. Again, I do actually consider football a sport smile , and understand the reasons why wins were changed from 2 to 3 points, largely for subjective reasoning on possibly more entertainment. Though poor Manchester City, one of the more entertaining sides, are currently getting hammered by the fact that they coincidentally keep drawing matches, whilst others with less goals for and against have had many fewer draws.

Also in 3 of the sports from which the top 10 SPOTY contenders came from judges actually mark the performance i.e. boxing, diving and gymnastics with varying degrees of consistency, as against F1 with its clear points for finishing positions.

So, definitely requires athleticism, and to me has a perfectly objective scoring system, that'll be a sport then smile

If folk don't like this sport that I like so be it, there are one or two sports I don't really like.

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 14th of December 2009 11:34:56 PM

Drew · Dec 14, 2009

Couldnt agree more with Indy...you have to be very very fit to drive in any professional motor sport...FYI i hate F1...its mostly a procession...but they are very fit athletes.

Ratty · County player

Oh well, to continue our lads' pub talk. The greatest philosophers have debated what is "Art", so why should we not debate what is "Sport" ...

I put forward the proposition that tennis is definitely a sport, and doing crossword puzzles is definitely not. So where is the dividing line between "sport" and "pastime"? I think that it is somewhere in the golf/snooker/darts range.

The need to be physically fit is surely not a factor. Being fit makes you better at most things.

If one includes all pursuits with an element of "physicality", like turning a steering wheel, then what makes driving a car sport, and playing a console motor-racing game not a sport? Both require exactly the same skills, although of course you are unlikely to die if you make a mistake on a console game.

indiana · Tennis legend

To continue....

The need to be physically fit surely is a factor. It is not an all determining factor since that would question golf as a sport, which I'd definitely say is a sport.) OK, some golfers are very fit like Tiger Woods ( but then he evidently had more energy to burn than anyone realised

) and I would say all things being equal additional fitness must help. But the likes of say Colin Montgomerie isn't exactly a supreme athlete and unquestionably folk can play to some level while fairly unfit.

Saying something like physical fitness is a factor for most sports is not the same as saying many jobs which require physical fitness are candidates for sports. There are other factors that would come into the equation, such as competition, that would rule these out ( would a competition to deliver post as quickly as possible be a sport ? hmm smile

). But there are probably a few pursuits that are undoubtably in a grey area. And how important physical fitness is as a factor eg. essential or just one factor in the equation determines how one looks at say golf and much more open to arguement such as snooker and darts.

Re motor sport, sorry to harp on smile

but there is hell of a lot more physicality there then turning a sterring wheel every so often, not least involved in being able to cope with the G forces and strain on neck muscles etc when cornering at the speeds these guys do. Not quite the same as a winding road journey through the Highlands with many turns of a wheel.

I'm not really into games and I realise they are increasingly more lifelike in experience but if some can truelly recreate the physicality of true motor racing then I am well impressed. Even if they do, the game of course ( well to me ) is not a sport. It is not the real experience , which to me is another factor in the equation.

So what makes a sport is based on a combination of factors, many of which I have not gone into here, some ( maybe all ) not being an absolute criterion. It is a combination of things and in the end I would say there is no true definition on which everyone would agree.

Doesn't mean we can't try smile

Be interesting to hear other thoughts on what factors are needed or should be a consideration in what makes a sport and maybe some folk might bravely declare what they consider to be and not to be sports.

Though if you "out" a sport, be prepared that you might get someone coming back with a long spiel in defense of one of their favourite sports

philwrig · Hall of fame

How did Capello win coach of the year. England have only qualified for the world cup. I can't remember Sven winning it when England qualified in 2006 just as comfortably.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

Btw Indy i think they are changing the points this year, its been suggested:

1st 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
25 20 15 10 8 6 5 3 2 1

i think they are doing this soe someone can overtake Schumacher's total points won record

indiana · Tennis legend

philwrig wrote:

How did Capello win coach of the year. England have only qualified for the world cup. I can't remember Sven winning it when England qualified in 2006 just as comfortably.

Yep, who knows how they came up with that one. Doesn't look as if they have that high expectations of England if they give coach of the year for merely leading England to qualify ( albeit with ease in a non exceptional group ) for the World Cup Finals.

Next year should have been regarded as his real test.

Salmon · Tennis legend

F1's far harsher than any sport barring the endurance ones. It's normal for drivers to lose 5 to 7 pounds during a race, and you need to drive at 50 degrees in Sepang - I doubt there are too many people who can suffer that without having to go to the hospital right after.

Tiger Woods winning the Husband Of The Year award would be less ridiculous than Giggs winning this. He barely starts matches these days and Vidic was voted as ManU's best player for 2009.

philwrig · Hall of fame

Let's face it Giggs was the sentimental choice and as soon as you get the british public involved all objectivity goes out the window.
If you decide to nominate Giggs based upon his total career surely you had to nominate Flintoff as well. No consistency.