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Post Info TOPIC: Queen's Wild Cards To Dimitrov, Nishikori, Grosjean.


Lower Club Player

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RE: Queen's Wild Cards To Dimitrov, Nishikori, Grosjean.


scottie1 wrote:

agree with you saw Eaton at Braehead he won match but some of his play ground strokes were shocking. At the moment the mens game in Britain is pretty dire! Andy excepted! Dan Evans should get a WC possibly James Ward but then one struggles!

loads of youngsters like Willis Smethurst etc but too soon yet for them. Danny Cox I am unsure about seems too slight in my humble opinion to make big break through.

Any word of a Jamie Baker come back? One of my favourite players.



I was talking to someone yesterday about the standard of tennis at futures level (very high) and how few make it through I said maybe this one has the game (we were watching Cox) he said yes he could have the game but he's too short which lead to a discussion about Michael Chang

 



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Just had a closer look at Dimitrov's results. Clearly it's not just the LTA who have had the wool pulled over their eyes by his agent and/or one good result. In the last 12 months, he has received:

- 3 WCs into ATPs
- 2 WCs into ATP qualifying
- 10 WCs into Challengers

he's lost his first match in these tournaments 12 times, mainly in straight sets including a few bagels, including R1 losses in all but one of those Challenger main draws.

In the other three cases, he has won one match before going out. One of them, in the Bangkok Challenger, was against fellow qWC Peeraklit Sirabutwong, who still hasn't made the top 1000, and another was an 8-6 in the 3rd set t/b victory against Jiri Vanek (ranked 145 at the moment) in Basel qualifying.

The week that has seen the number of WCs he's getting accelerate was Rotterdam week, when he beat Berdych (no doubt having one of his Berdbrain days) in R1 then took a set off Rafa, who must have been having a really off day - Rafa of course praised him to the skies to disguise his embarrassment.

He must have backed this up since to be getting quite so many WCs, mustn't he? Er no, nobody involved in giving out WCs seems to have noticed that Dimitrov hasn't beaten a top 300 player since ... indeed, if you discount DC v Hungary, he has lost every match since except the one to Sirabutwong!

As for Nishikori, "a man who Rafael Nadal predicts will be a Top 10 player in the future" (that's the reason given for his WC) - well, as with Dimitrov, Rafa would say something like that after being pushed embarrassingly close by a relatively low-ranked player - all of the top players tend to over-hype opponents in that kind of situation.

I can't see the GB WCs going to anyone but Wardy and Evo, especially after this week, but how would you feel if you were Boggo, Josh, Bloomers, Slabba or Eaton and the organisation that was supposed to be supporting you was giving a WC to a Bulgarian who is lower-ranked than you are with a record of wasting WCs as bad as that? bleh



-- Edited by steven on Friday 15th of May 2009 08:08:23 AM

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Maybe thats the big plan then, they know he is overrated and want an easy win.

The rest of the plan is that he draws a British Qualifier or British Wild Card in the first round and loses to them, so the headlines can be "Brit beats future Top 10 player".

Genius....

-- Edited by Mikeduke on Friday 15th of May 2009 06:36:36 AM

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Good summary, Steven!


Irrespective of how good Dimitrov turns out to be, he's easily the most overrated player I've seen since I've started following tennis.

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It's even more hilarious that the LTA are giving a wild card to a person coached by Peter Lundgren. ashamed.gif

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mjd


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Steven, I love your determination in researcing those Dimitrov results it makes the LTA get tough policies look as stupid as we mostly agree they are.
It all leaves me wondering what his ranking would have been without those 'gifted' ranking points.
Perhaps I am better off not knowing as it makes me so angry that it is possible to get up the rankings that way.


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The only ranking points he has from atp wild cards are 45 from rotterdam, out of a total of 159.

The majority of the rest of his points are made up from 3 future titles in won in Spain last year.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/players/playerprofiles/pointsbreakdown.asp?player=D875


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mjd wrote:
It all leaves me wondering what his ranking would have been without those 'gifted' ranking points.
Perhaps I am better off not knowing as it makes me so angry that it is possible to get up the rankings that way.

Actually, one good thing is that it's not possible to get up the rankings that way any more - it used to be possible to get well into the top 1000 on the basis of 1-pointers from Challenger WCs and 5-pointers from ATP WCs, but then they stopped awarding points for R1 losses below Masters level.

Apart from 6 points from Bangkok (which I've just realised were in the main draw, not qualifying, so I'd better amend my last post) and 45 from Rotterdam, Dimitrov has gained all of his points from Futures, having won three Futures in Spain between May and September last year. So, he'd probably be ranked a fair bit higher than 372 if he'd carried on playing Futures instead of losing in R1 of Challengers and ATPs most weeks.

At the moment he seems to be too good for Futures but not ready to do consistently well in Challengers - a problem quite a few Brits have had to try to overcome in the past. Indeed, his Challenger WC results have been unusually bad for someone that successful in Futures, so I guess that a la Donald Young, all the losses have knocked his confidence and resulted in him taking a step back from where he was 8 months ago. 

-- Edited by steven on Friday 15th of May 2009 08:09:45 AM

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



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could also possible be linked to match focus i would imagine there is more room for error in futures and mistakes are punished less. At challenger lvl you are generally up against a season player who should take nay advantage they find. of course things flip again when you get to atp, and play a top player, the nature of the match means you will be forced to remain focused.

i agree though its normal for top player to heap praise if they are pushed hard by a youngster/unknown. we even saw it with boggo back in the day.

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Count Zero - Creator of the Statistical Tennis Extrapolation & Verification ENtity or, as we like to call him, that steven.


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steven wrote:


The week that has seen the number of WCs he's getting accelerate was Rotterdam week, when he beat Berdych (no doubt having one of his Berdbrain days) in R1 then took a set off Rafa, who must have been having a really off day - Rafa of course praised him to the skies to disguise his embarrassment.



-- Edited by steven on Friday 15th of May 2009 08:08:23 AM



Now, now Steven, don't get too far ahead of yourself. I won't defend him wasting WCs, or the ridiculous decision by the LTA in giving a WC to an 18 year old Bulgarian ranked 300-odd, but refusing to give a WC to an 18 year old Brit ranked 300-odd because he isn't ranked high enough(!)

But i saw that match, Nadal wasn't on fire like he can be but he was playing well enough. Dimitrov looked like a top player; his serve was very strong, his forehand was strong, and his backhand was very ugly but he hits it like a tracer bullet

 He may be overrated in the extreme but he's no bum...



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I didn't see his match against Rafa so I'll have to take your word for it. Anyway, I'm not saying he's not good, his Futures titles alone suggest he's a very good player for his age. I just think the hype machine (and the WC machine) has gone way too far with him.

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Grand Slam Champion

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Dimitrov is definately a very talented player (you don't take a set off Rafa if you're not, plus the fact he was junior number 1 and won junior slams), and the fact he has taken some futures titles means that he can cut it at senior level.

It seems that players who get lots of wild cards miss out on the development stage that you get by working your way on the rankings, as by playing futures matches you learn what you can and cannot do at senior level, and while you are still learning, you can get away with more mistakes because the players aren't so good, while going straight to senior and ATP level means that you get found out easily.

Some of the WC's are okay, but getting one every week is a bit too much, and he'd have much better off working his way up the rankings in futures every few weeks - the WC that Dimitrov will get for Wimbledon is justified though as he won the junior event last season so can rightfully get a WC.

Nishikori can probably justify his WC given that he's only slipped down the rankings because of injury, which is partly what the WC's are for.



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why should a (non british) junior wimby champ get a MD WC at wimby? is that policy at all the slams?

a QWC ok.

-- Edited by Count Zero on Friday 15th of May 2009 10:57:17 AM

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whilst our girls champion only has a QWC doesn't she?

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Count Zero wrote:
why should a (non british) junior wimby champ get a MD WC at wimby? is that policy at all the slams?

a QWC ok.

An obvious example that suggests they don't is the 2005 US Open, where Muzza didn't get a main draw WC. He would have got a QWC, I'm sure, but didn't need one because his ranking was already in the top 150 at the cut-off date.

So the US Open didn't give a main draw WC to the winner of their junior event 12 months earlier when he was less than 50 places away from getting direct entry and had a reasonable chance of winning a match (which of course he did after he qualified) ...

Marin Cilic only got  QWC at Roland Garros 2006 as well, after winning RG Juniors in 2005.



-- Edited by steven on Friday 15th of May 2009 11:22:34 AM

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html

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