Player(s) of the Year Polls 2008....

Vandenburg · Futures level

RE: Player(s) of the Year Polls 2008....

Vandenburg · Futures level

OWNED ONCE MORE!

Spectator · All-time great

Time, Gentlemen.

Vandenburg, I don't think anyone is denying that criticism of aspects of the LTA is possible -- the rest of this board contains a fair amount of it. And I'm sure that if asked, everyone on this board, players included, would be delighted to see more British players in the upper echelons of the sport. And doubtless various people have their views as to what would enable this to happen -- views which they are fully entitled to express so long as they do so respectfully.

What I think people do tend to object to is the use of disrespectful language to denigrate players. That's why I made my original comment re: the "flop of the year" post. It wasn't to deny that there were potentially elements of truth involved in some of your characterisations. It was simply to say that I don't think we have the right to use the term "flop" to describe any of the players involved. "Flop of the year" implies totality of failure in a way that I feel is neither accurate nor helpful.

Without making any pronouncement on the state of British tennis as a whole, I think there's a lot to celebrate in some of the players mentioned. In addition to the defense of Boggo on ranking terms, I am, quite frankly, still struck by his courage in playing agains the odds in the Davis Cup -- despite huge pressure, a negative build-up and not the greatest team support. We can debate from here to kingdom come whether he should have been called up. He was, and he went. He didn't have to; look at Richard Gasquet. I admire Boggo's courage . . . just as I admire Edward Seator's frankness and un-self-pitying acceptance of the fact that injury had made life on the tour impractical. And if Gregory Howe, at 36, can still beat ranked players (and do it without racking up the air miles and giving himself the carbon footprint of a yeti) . . . more power to him!

All that said, can we now call time on this discussion? Or at least on the name calling amongst ourselves . . . which doesn't seem particularly helpful either.

-- Edited by Spectator at 08:55, 2008-12-13

-- Edited by Spectator at 08:59, 2008-12-13

Malteaser · Junior player

Just a quick reflection on this year.

Look at the top 200 and yes, GB is poorly represented.

But at the beginning of this year we on this board were hopefully predicting 2, maybe 3 in the top 200 and we would have been right had Jamie Baker not been struck with a horrible illness. All of us would have said that more then that would have been an exceptional year. Why? Because at the beginning of the year we had a base of hardly anything. 5 or 6 in the top 500 and fewer between 500 and 1000. Some of these had retired.

So 1 year on where are we? We have 10 in the top 500 and over 25 in the top 1000. Almost without exception they are all improvers/risers in the year, all young and all have potential to kick on.

2009 has the scope to be much better in terms of penetrating the top 200, but I'd still say that we would do well to get another player in the top 100 from where we are at the moment.

I just think now is not the time to be negative, actually we have quite a few players to be positive about for next year and alot more Juniors and risers to watch out for.

It's too easy to slag off Brittish Tennis. Let's leave that job to the journalists with nothing better to write about rather than us.

johnnylad · Tennis legend

Did anyone else spot the racism in my post?

My opinion is just that the word 'flop' for someone who maintained their ranking in the top 200 of all the people in the world looking to make a professional living thorugh the game of tennis is too harsh.

I realise that is not your opinion. It makes me think you are more interested in picking a fight than commenting on tennis which is what this board really exists for. I am prepared to accept I am wrong.

Please do not accuse me of racism and infidelity and some of the stuff you have said in other threads about my hopes for the players. I am sorry if a tongue in cheek joke about pedigree chum dog food was offensive to you. Please accept the apology. The beer goggles was in reference to you misreading my post - nothing rascist or sinister at all.

I have so much respect for Boggo, Seator, Howe etc... for pursuing/living their dream and your whingeing frustrates me but I accept it's your right to do so.

steven · Tennis legend

No idea how anyone could contrive to find racism in your post JL, that bit was the most bizarre of the V man's many bizarre comments. Might be an idea for us all to calm down though. wink

The weird thing is that some of Vandenburg's original post was reasonably ok - he was rightly (I think) criticised for being too damning of some players, but while some of the rest of it may have been a bit cynical (lots of us have days like that ashamed

), some of it wasn't too far off the mark.

GB Tennis has been in the doldrums for a long time, no doubt about that, but it's definitely got a bit better this year, even if it's not as fast as we (not to mention the players themselves, and the LTA!) might like.

Things are clearly improving as far as the GB women are concerned and you only need to look at the 2008 column on the men's top 25 table to see that there are promising signs for the men too. 23 of the 27 Brits in the top 1000 have moved up this year, including no less than 19 of them up more than 100 places.

I'm the first to remind people that the number of risers in the top 1000 is not the full story, because a list of the players in the top 1000 at the year end doesn't take into account the downward moves of those who have dropped out of the top 1000 that year. We lost 9 players from the top 1000 this year, so the net gain is 3, and it could easily have been just 1, since we had two players ranked 1001= on 31 December last year!

However, the average age of the Brits in the top 1000 has gone down by nearly a year (despite the 15 who stayed there all being a year older), so there's good reason to hope that a lot of them will continue to move up. Also, while we only had a net gain of 2 in the top 500 this year, only a handful of countries had a net gain of more than 1 - it's not as if lots of other countries are improving faster and gaining half a dozen top 500 players per year.

The main reason poor old Boggo gets so much stick is because the GB no. 2 is only ranked just inside the top 200 - if there were 10 Brits above him, he wouldn't get nearly such a hard time, and it's not his fault that there aren't!

-- Edited by steven at 08:19, 2008-12-14

Drew · Dec 15, 2008

Just back in the land of the living today...posted 4 out of 7 polls so far...the other 3 will be tonight.

Drew · Dec 16, 2008

All the polls are up now...so please vote....getting a lot of views on each poll but only a few members voting. Please take time to read through each section and make your choices.

Please let me know but I think we could let these run perhaps into next year ? (Perhaps a week before the AO to let as many people vote ?)

Drew · Dec 16, 2008

johnnylad wrote:

Did anyone else spot the racism in my post?

My opinion is just that the word 'flop' for someone who maintained their ranking in the top 200 of all the people in the world looking to make a professional living thorugh the game of tennis is too harsh.

I realise that is not your opinion. It makes me think you are more interested in picking a fight than commenting on tennis which is what this board really exists for. I am prepared to accept I am wrong.

Please do not accuse me of racism and infidelity and some of the stuff you have said in other threads about my hopes for the players. I am sorry if a tongue in cheek joke about pedigree chum dog food was offensive to you. Please accept the apology. The beer goggles was in reference to you misreading my post - nothing rascist or sinister at all.

I have so much respect for Boggo, Seator, Howe etc... for pursuing/living their dream and your whingeing frustrates me but I accept it's your right to do so.

I agree that there is nothing remotely racist in your post JL. You have made concessions in the post above regarding the right to have opinions.

Vandenburg...it would be good to re-consider your accusation of racisim.
You make good reading at times and are very very welcome to keep on doing so.

My frustration with british tennis is never hidden. I dont usually knock the Brits that really try on the tour...but its hard not to criticise sometimes.

We should always always remember that unless you are actually there watching the player lose 6-0 6-1 to a WR1999 fish farmer from nowhere we rarely find out the reasons why. The guy could have dragged his fever-ridden body out to court in 110Deg heat just to play !

Its easier to judge over a year....and there are enough tables and stats on this site and elsewhere (Note to Steven...I dont look elsewhere honest!) to show that apart from Andy British mens tennis is still in bit of a state.

My hopeful nature sees better times ahead...fingers crossed.

steven · Tennis legend

LOL, you're allowed to look elsewhere - if you find anything good, let me know!

You're right about us hardly ever knowing the reasons why, that's why it's so good to have players like Fitzy and Seator posting here. Of course, you only hear their side of the story, but in those two cases they seem to be well aware of their weaknesses as well as their strengths, so I'm pretty sure they tell it as it is!

Vandenburg · Futures level

i will know explain my comments.

the comment of racism was indifferent

when JL wrote ' bear goggles' i thought this was of reference to my spellling and the fact that english is only my 4th language.

sorry for any confusion.

johnnylad · Tennis legend

thanks.

Without wanting to re-open any worm cans the phrase was beer goggles though - a reference to how our opinions and perceptions can change after a couple of alcoholic drinks.

Here's to James Ward reaching the top 32 in 2009

Count Zero · Tennis legend

johnnylad wrote:

a reference to how our opinions and perceptions of Women can change after a couple of alcoholic drinks.

isnt that really what its meant to be,

johnnylad · Tennis legend

women or british tennis players I thought

Count Zero · Tennis legend

i've never tried watching tennis drunk. but i think too much turning the head from one side to another could result in a unpleasant expulsion from the mouth area.

i'll have to ask Steven what watching tennis drunk is like, i hear he does that a lot (already starting my campaign).