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Post Info TOPIC: Muzza questions Boggo fighting spirit


County player

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RE: Muzza questions Boggo fighting spirit


I would say that one of his issues is a mental one, which he can't really do much about, and which it is grossly unfair to criticise him for.

The other issue is a physical one. He does not look like a professional athlete, and there seems to be a recurrent problem with fading away as a match goes on. He is very slightly built, whereas most top players are much more muscular. (Davydenko is slight, but is incredibly fit).

I don't know whether his apparent lack of physical conditioning is down to a lack of effort, but if it is, then the people who have paid huge amounts for his development over the last 10 years or so have every right to be annoyed with him.


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Futures qualifying

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goldfish wrote:

I agree that Boggo should have a rest from Davis Cup but I don't think it will be his choice so much as him not being picked for a while at least. John Lloyd said yesterday that he was going to give the younger guys a chance. I feel very sorry for Alex - despite all the ciritcism, all the failures to win a live rubber, all the losses in main draws at Wimbledon, he took on the challenge once again knowing that he would get hammered if he didn't win. Why should he take so much criticism when no-one else seems able to do any better? OK, no-one else got the chance this time, but obviously because it was deemed that no-one else would do better than Alex. Pity he couldn't convert his talent which just looks so much better than his ranking at times but he isn't pretending to be a top 100 player at present and frustrating as it is for those of us watching, it is totally unfair for him to take so much flack when he is, after all, the GB no 2 player - quite an achievement in life. Share it between everyone else who hasn't even made it to this standard.

Good Luck Alex - hope you can enjoy pursuing your own ranking for a while without quite so much attention on you.



   Couldn't agree more. Gawd knows there's nobody else likely to do any better. We always knew it would be a tough task and the doubles players deserve just as much flack as Boggo always seems to get. They were awful.furious



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mjd


Challenger qualifying

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Perhaps Andy should consider his own reactions and look at Peyas comments about team support, perhaps he could learn a bit about 'team work' -

After his win, Peya admitted that noisy support he enjoyed from his team-mates had been a big help for him.

"That's what the Davis Cup is all about - the team sticking together and supporting each other as a team," he said.

And Austria's captain Gilbert Schaller said: "The most important thing for me with this win was great team-work. The key factor was that the atmosphere was great throughout the week."

As for Andy's opinion of Boggo not showing enough reaction, it  is not in Boggos personallity to act like the rampant gorrilla that Andy is wink, world no 1 Federer rarely shows emotion during his game he just gets on with it. I agree that the LTA have plowed more than generous amounts into supporting Boggo over the years but if he has reached his potential £thousands will change very little and no one should complain.


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Challenger level

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One thing that I thought was very obvious in Boggo's game was slow he was to react to a change of direction, it was like he was stepping out of wet concrete. A drop shop or a cross court from the back of the court had Alex starting of for the ball half a second later than what you'd expect. It made Peya look better than he was, hitting so many clean winners. Has Alex just got slow reactions or, was this the result of the hamstring injury?

I think Andy's point about fitness has merit as do those of levels of competitiveness. I remember Josh used to have quite a "fleshy" build as an example, also I have always been taken about at how futures events often seem to be something of a social for Brit players when not on court. Andy has obviously taken his fitness to levels way beyond what it was when he first came on the scene and realises you need that kind of intesity to suceed in this sport. Its not just being fit for the 4th & 5th sets, its how high your levels can remain during the 2nd & 3rd.

His "I got a better view watching inside on telly" comments miss the point so widely though, I cant even be a*sed to comment!

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DJ


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goldfish wrote:

I agree that Boggo should have a rest from Davis Cup but I don't think it will be his choice so much as him not being picked for a while at least. John Lloyd said yesterday that he was going to give the younger guys a chance. I feel very sorry for Alex - despite all the ciritcism, all the failures to win a live rubber, all the losses in main draws at Wimbledon, he took on the challenge once again knowing that he would get hammered if he didn't win. Why should he take so much criticism when no-one else seems able to do any better? OK, no-one else got the chance this time, but obviously because it was deemed that no-one else would do better than Alex. Pity he couldn't convert his talent which just looks so much better than his ranking at times but he isn't pretending to be a top 100 player at present and frustrating as it is for those of us watching, it is totally unfair for him to take so much flack when he is, after all, the GB no 2 player - quite an achievement in life. Share it between everyone else who hasn't even made it to this standard.

Good Luck Alex - hope you can enjoy pursuing your own ranking for a while without quite so much attention on you.



Well said, Liz! I'm with you 100% on this.

Ignore the criticism, Alex; be as selfish as virtually all other players, and concentrate solely on your own career for a while. 



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Grand Slam Champion

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Wasn't at all impressed by the GB bench yesterday with Jamie and Ross looking disinterested, and Andy not even there, which is not the attitude that you want from your teammates, and it must have not exactly helped Boggo to look over and see that his team-mates aren't confident that you can win, nor are they even trying to cheer you on - and well done to Pat Cash and Chris Bradman who picked up on it in commentary and called them on it.

I doubt Boggo will be playing many, if any, more Davis Cup ties, but he's by far the 2nd best player that we have, and I doubt any of our other players would have won either of their rubbers (can you imagine Goodall or Slabba being on the verge of a 6-3, 5-1 lead against Melzer...) - it's all very well criticising him, but there is no-one else at the top level at the moment, which is the sad truth.

If Evans continues to move up at this rate, then he may be worth a shot in the squad next time, along with Cox if he can start picking up the points

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gjr


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Pretty pissed off at Andy's comments and attitude. I think there is some kind of hidden agenda going on here. Either to kick Boggo off the team or for Andy to quit DC until team GB are ready for him.

On other forums I have been critical of Boggo's mentallity but for Andy to come out saying the rest of the team doesn't want it enough and then leaving to watch it on TV is pretty sad if you ask me.

-- Edited by gjr at 17:28, 2008-09-22

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Futures level

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Agree with loads of the comments. I like Alex I think he is agood player talented but unfortunately lacks the killer instinct at present. He has done no worse than Jamie Delgado or even Arvind Parmer who both struggled in Davis Cup.

I felt the picking of the squad left a lot to be desired. Personally I would have selected Goodall and dropped Hutchins! That would have given three alternative singles players.

Andy has high standards wants to win but I think he is disappointed by the others in the team possibly including his brother.

Where do we go from here? Well Jamie Baker if fit is an alternative or Bloomfield other than that not much! Evans I saw in Edinburgh in my mind better than Cox But both not of Andy Murray standards . Jamie Murray will be intesting to follow will he retain his ranking or fall by the wayside? Personally I think Jamie should have a more concerted go at the singles again!



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RJA


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gjr wrote:

Pretty pissed off at Andy's comments and attitude. I think there is some kind of hidden agenda going on here. Either to kick Boggo off the team or for Andy to quit DC until team GB are ready for him.

On other forums I have been critical of Boggo's mentallity but for Andy to come out saying the rest of the team doesn't want it enough and then leaving to watch it on TV is pretty sad if you ask me.

-- Edited by gjr at 17:28, 2008-09-22




I think that Andy has the right to be annoyed with Boggo. It isn't the losing but the gutless capitulation that we have to witness time and again that really grates. It doesn't matter how much talent he has when ever things get tough Alex just can't handle it.

 



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Personally speaking I didn't see a gutless capitulation. I saw a close match that Boggo failed to win, sure that's disappointing but the negative spin that has been put on it is more disappointing to me. We seem to have completely forgotten that our doubles team DID capitulate and played nowhere near their best to lose in three, not even close sets and instead we're putting all the blame on a guy who played his best to the end and lost in four, the first three very competitive and close.

I think that the drop to Group 1 (and it'd be good to remember we were there a year ago it's not like this is the worst DC result for decades) is a good thing, a couple of ties without Andy and with less pressure/fewer 'good' opponents could be a very good thing we've recently lost a few DC players, Delgado/Rusedski/Henman/Parmer (not that recent) and we need to train up a few new ones including Goodall/Bloomers/Slabba/maybe Evans/willis/young guys coming up the rankings. We can't do that in the world group where every tie is against opposition better than us.

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Challenger level

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This basically belongs in this thread but there's some interesting stuff here. Josh getting extra funding for example. Highlighting the ridiculous £17 for children at the weekend being another......Hmmm, why don't we spend a far greater % of our buget than we should do on Davis Cup, then ensure we keep away the very kids we spend the money to try to inspire!!!

As always from Neil, its a good read.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article4799837.ece


-- Edited by Drew at 21:30, 2008-09-22

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Just a little peculiar that only Scottie1 has mentioned Jamie Baker in all the discussions about alternatives to Alex - esp since Jamie has beaten Peya twice this year!

I disagree with Scottie1 on Jamie M trying singles again - I think he will have to work hard to stay in the 30s in doubles and that will be his only part in the DC.

Regarding Andy's comments, I think he can say what he likes. He played better than any of us have seen for that early in the day - he was obviously passionate about the game. IMO it isnt possible to be that passionate but then immediately afterwards to be utterly nice and easygoing about the other rubbers being given away without a real fight.

I suspect that reading between the lines of Andy's (and JL's) comments - he's looking for an "out" if they get an away tie somewhere inconvenient. And who can blame him - on that display - the rest of the team don't deserve him.

He might be doing British tennis a favour by being blunt about the need for effort and commitment.

Did someone say in the commentary that Federer only came back to the Swiss team when Wawrinka emerged as a credible team mate - I wouldnt blame Andy if he does likewise.

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I agree, Jamie Murray should try singles again. If he gets really lucky, he might get a nice draw and qualify for a Futures event.

Can somebody please tell me that I didn't just read Jamie Murray's name as an option put forward to play singles in Davis Cup. He probably wouldn't have taken a game off Peya, never mind a set.

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Andy Murray started his post-tie press conference as Alex Bogdanovic was towelling down in the locker room after his defeat against Peya. Murray has now been quoted in every form of press saying that Alex seemed to capitulate against the Austrian and how Andy likes to see people being pumped up court.

Fast-forward 30 minutes and read what Bogdanovic had to say. I have not seen anything on the BBC or anywhere else on what Alex had to say after the match. That is a disgrace.

Alex was asked how he felt he played...

A - "I just tried to stay calm all the way through the match. Its not me to get all pumped....that just drains me. I just played every point as it came Im not the same as Andy."

Q - Did you get mentally tired today ?

A - "No I did not feel mentally tired at any time, sure he was getting on top but that was down to my injury".

Q - Do you think he (Peya) was the better player ?

A - "No not really I started off really well and as things went on my Hamstring really tightend up and I really could not move that well and he knew that and kept trying to bring me into the net"

So let me ask you this. If you do not think Alex was lying then what he has to say had merit to be at least printed. Also Andy would not have made the comments he did if he had sat in that PC and listend to Alex.

I watched every single blow of this match and noted every single backhand, forehand, net rush, ace and double fault. Even when Alex was down in the 4th his game plan was still to go for winners and he still painted the sidelines at times. His despairing lunge at the net took me totally by surprise...he never got there but he threw himself down because he thought he had a chance.

People are free to express whatever they feel but this weekend my respect for Bogdanovic has increased greatly. Yes he is a slight of a tennis player but his timing on shots is impeccable at times. Agreed his fitness still needs work. But dont tell me he is a choker. You cannot win as many matches as he has at his level and be called a choker. He does get bullied at the higher level and perhaps he will never have the build to compete. Alex is a tryer and is a highly skilled tennis player and he should be proud to be the British Number 2 and to have played for his country with determination, guts and skill.

Drew Brown - A View from courtside

-- Edited by Drew at 22:31, 2008-09-22

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Clearly Muzza did a great job in his own rubbers in this tie biggrin and he's a brilliant player nowadays, but to slag off the rest of the team to the press afterwards was unnecessary, classless and almost certainly counter-productive. doh I imagine he felt entitled to do so in return for being publicly criticised over the Argentina tie, but he should have been able to rise above doing it in public.

It seems to have been forgotten in all this that Boggo won a set in each match smile the first time he's done that in DC, and didn't seem (to me) to just give up when the going got tough, something he has appeared to be guilty of at times in the past.

Looking at this tie in isolation, going a set and a break up against Smelly was quite an achievement (particularly the way he did it) and the Peya match was always going to be a 50:50 match, so if Alex had never had to be thrown to the wolves in the past and this had been his first DC tie, I think we'd have been saying, "pity he couldn't convert the lead against Peya, but that was a pretty good effort for someone ranked outside the top 150."

Indeed, I think Peya (who played above himself in the end) might have folded had Boggo not been a bit injured and been able to come into the net from time to time to make things a bit more unpredictable ... and most of all, had Boggo's reputation for choking not gone before him.

It seems that even if Alex doesn't actually choke, the knowledge that he might is enough to make the opponent keep fighting ... and of course if you notice all your opponent's team mates slinking off to the dressing room halfway through the match (never mind the stuff Murray spouted about it not mattering because Boggo never looks to the bench for support anyway - even if Boggo didn't notice, I bet the Austrians did!) and little Louis Cayer being the only person on the home bench managing to keep any enthusiasm going at all, that must give you quite a lift if you're Peya. furious

I'm not arguing that Boggo should be kept in the DC team - he clearly gets very little out of the atmosphere created by the large crowd, so he's never likely to raise his game like some Challenger-level players do when they play DC and I'm not even sure any more whether it would have had that much of a positive effect on him if he had won yesterday. Then again, would you relish playing in front of a large crowd when you've been slagged off unfairly (the extent of it, at least, is unfair) by so many people for years on end?

It's not Boggo's 'fault' that:
 
- he is GB's second best singles player by some margin
- he has won more Challenger titles this century than all the other Brits put together
- there haven't been enough Brits coming up to stop him getting Wimby WCs
- no other Challenger level Brit has won a match that has lasted more than three sets for years. (*)

Nor is it his 'fault' that he has put himself out to play DC ties in both Australia and Argentina in recent years and played a couple of times when he was injured without making a big thing of it like most other players would have.

(*)That's not to downplay Eaton beating Patience and Pashanski in straights or Bloomers thrashing Berlocq, all of which were fine achievements, but I think Boggo might have been able to keep at least two of those players under the cosh for three straight sets too.

What I think Alex should do now, for his own sake, is to forget DC for a while and concentrate on getting into the top 100. He's going to have to beat some demons to do that, so maybe when he has done that, he'll be ready to play DC again.

Actually, I think Boggo's performances were a heck of a lot better than the abject display by our doubles pairing, Shaggy in particular - not a view that went down well in the AM.com area, I have to say. wink No, they didn't lose from a set up, but that's only because they never looked likely to win a set in the first place! bleh I'm not saying this to be nasty to the doubles team, just to make it clear why I think it's unfair that Boggo seems to be getting singled out to be the scapegoat for a DC loss yet again.

In fairness to the AM.commers (in spite of their collective groan when I said near the end of the doubles match "Looks like Boggo's going to have to be the hero then!"), they made a lot of noise during the match and sustained it long after their idol had bu**ered off to the dressing room, only really going quiet when Alex went 0-4 down in the 4th (which I have to admit silenced me too) but still managing to raise some enthusiasm again when he got one of those breaks back.

-- Edited by steven at 22:44, 2008-09-22

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