Petition for more money for the girls

PaulM · Tennis legend

RE: Petition for more money for the girls

Salmon · Tennis legend

Yes, but the number of 10Ks/15Ks has got absolutely nothing to do with ITF, so we can't blame them for more ITFs for the men. Barring maybe a few in Africa which are funded by ITF, national associations fund all events.

-- Edited by Salmon at 20:33, 2008-08-11

PaulM · Tennis legend

Sorry Salmon but that's not correct. The ITF has complete responsibility for sanctioning these events. They could quite easily refuse applications which must be submitted to the appropriate 'Committee' (ie Men's or Women's). Events are cancelled throughout the year, sometimes because the event cant get the money together, and othertimes because it becomes apparent the host site is unsuitable. Not all applications are successful.

It's not a case of "I want to host an event, so I will." If the ITF wanted to limit the numbers of events it can do so easily. But as it gets a cut of the prize fund its not really in its interests to.

-- Edited by PaulM at 21:05, 2008-08-11

Salmon · Tennis legend

Surely the ITF shouldn't cut down on the number of Futures for men just because federations are reluctant to host some for women?

-- Edited by Salmon at 21:13, 2008-08-11

PaulM · Tennis legend

Perhaps the ITF should encourage certain regions to consider holding some women's events instead? Many countries host 1 or more 'circuits' of mens events (ie 2x 15k's or 3x 10k's) and no women's events.

I wasnt saying the ITF should be cancelling men's tournaments, but I think it should be taking steps to bring the tours in-line with each other.

It is "the ITF's fault" there are more events for men than women. It is entirely in their control how many events take place and where so it got everything to do with them. That's what my point in response to you was - I wasn't meaning to start a new area of debate smile

-- Edited by PaulM at 21:15, 2008-08-11

Salmon · Tennis legend

Fair enough, but how can ITF encourage countries to host more women's events? No country will want to do that as men's tennis is a far bigger business than women's tennis (for good or for bad, but that's reality).

I do agree totally with the main petition (and hence I signed it), but I am not sure if the ITF is really responsible for there being more men's event than women's ones.

Edit: Debates are fun, though.

As long as it doesn't get out of hand, of course.

-- Edited by Salmon at 21:21, 2008-08-11

PaulM · Tennis legend

Salmon i totally get where you're coming from, but I'd suggest that at future's level men's tennis is no more of a draw for sponsors or spectators than women's events. So I don't really think it is a reality as you say. I guess alot of it is down to perceptions and old fashioned beliefs regarding women in sport (particularly in countries such as Iran or Syria).

Events in the Far East are immensely popular regardless of sex, wheras the opposite is true in the UK - men's, women's or combined there's still only about 3 people there watching!

EDIT: and I do appreciate your support by signing. These little 'debates' only help me pre-empt any response the ITF might send back if they can be bothered so I'm not caught off guard. biggrin

-- Edited by PaulM at 21:34, 2008-08-11

Salmon · Tennis legend

It is reality. Note that I am saying "business" and not sport as I don't care whether men play better or women do.

The fact is that the total money spun in men's tennis is much, much higher than in women's tennis, so you can't expect tennis federations to be more interested in women's tennis.

-- Edited by Salmon at 21:39, 2008-08-11

Montana Doug · Futures qualifying

You know.....this has got buried in the big story of equal prize money in the Slams.....I have always thought that more should have been done to get women's tennis in the same $$$$ ball park as men's tennis across the board. It means little for equal prize money in the Slams as many of the top women players out earn the top men's players in the Slams (more top women play doubles etc), but in the smaller tournaments women suffer big time. I can't believe how little these ladies are making, this is shocking.

Will sign right after I post this.

steven · Tennis legend

That's very true - the female players campaigning for equal pay at slams have probably done a huge disservice to the female players lower down the rankings, who are the ones who really need equality.

PaulM · Tennis legend

Steve you know I think you might be right. I remember Helen Crook had an article out around 2002 called "The Fine Line" which brought this subject up. She said that the top players were striving for equal prizemoney, and that was fair enough - top players need to look out for themselves. But there was no talk of evening it up at the lower end, even though pretty much every top player has slogged it out on the ITF tour for a little bit.

I just find it particularly odd that the ITF were supportive of Grand Slams offering equal pay, but don't want to implement on their own circuit.

Slowly closing in on 200 signatures.

If I wanted to get something on the front page, like write up a proper little article about this, who would I send it to?

PockyTastic · Futures level

Not related exactly to this excellent petition, but I must say I am very glad to notice a 75K event being held for Women in Britain (Shrewsbury to be precise) in September, finally some of the bigger-paying ITF events are being held in the UK so our girls don't have to spend so much on flights etc.

PaulM · Tennis legend

oh my god look what came into my inbox today from Neil Harman

Dear Paul,

Thanks for your e-mail. I had seen the word of the petition a couple of weeks ago (I am a firm fan of an occasional contributor to bt.net) and took a strong note of it. I am currently on holiday and not writing for a week or so before the US Open gears up. I think you can be sure I will be mentioning it then.

If you get any more information please do not hesitate to contact me. I shall be raising your points in New York with the ITF.

Very best wishes with everything,

Neil

Amazing. First Jon Wertheim, now Neil Harman. Sarah says she's good friends with someone at the Guardian, so hopefully will be able to get a contact there.

Keep your eyes on the Times people!!!

biggrin

-- Edited by PaulM at 13:26, 2008-08-15

Salmon · Tennis legend

Paul.

Congrats.

DJ · County player

Another angle from which you could approach this, Paul, is the effective devaluation of the US dollar over the period you're considering.
In February 1985, the closest date to your starting point for which I could find figures, one pound sterling was worth one dollar fifty cents, meaning that the $10,000 prize money was worth roughly £6,700. Today, the exchange rate is £1=$1.86, so $10,000 is approximately £5,400. So, not only has the notional value of the prize money not increased, the real value has actually dropped by almost 20% (and that's ignoring inflation, and, as anyone over the age of 40 will remember with pain, the inflation under the Conservatives during the late eighties and the nineties was horrendous, in double figures at times, making this month's 4.4% rise seem no inflation at all!)
Although I've given you the figures for the pound only, I'm sure the figures for most world currencies (except Zimbabwe, of course!) would show similar drops, as the dollar has weakened generally, not just in comparison to our pound.

-- Edited by DJ at 17:33, 2008-08-15