Week 31 - ATP Masters - Cincinnati

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Week 31 - ATP Masters - Cincinnati

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Updated, Ferrero and Ljubicic out.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

Amazingly, this event is going to be even weaker than Toronto was (imagine this amount of withdrawals next year... half the ATP tour would be suspended from events!)

Almagro, Baghdatis, Ferrero, Ljubicic, Hewitt, Monaco, and Nalbandian have all withdrawn from the main draw, as with many alternates withdrawing as well, they are replaced by Bolelli, Gulbis, Acasuso, Cilic, Lapentti, Belucci, Johansson, Montanes.

The cut is at 69 (I don't think it's going any lower, as I can't see anyone likely to withdraw), but Gremelmayr and Daniel are next to get in.

Good news is Murray will be seeded 8th here and so gets his first round bye

indiana · Tennis legend

The SE spot is reserved for any Toronto semi finalist that isn't a Direct Entry and would thus have had to qualify.

Cilic was the only remaining player at Toronto not a Direct Entry, so now that he's in, the SE place should just go to the next alternate in line.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

They are falling like flies. Since the last edit (thanks, MKK, I was out this morning) Nalbandian and Monaco have withdrawn, also Canas who was in from the alternatives.

Edit - I have just seen FD mentioned Nalby and Monaco but they weren't altered in the first post until now.

-- Edited by Madeline at 12:45, 2008-07-25

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:

The SE spot is reserved for any Toronto semi finalist that isn't a Direct Entry and would thus have had to qualify.

Cilic was the only remaining player at Toronto not a Direct Entry, so now that he's in, the SE place should just go to the next alternate in line.

Good point, so that means that Gremelmayr will make the cut as well... there's an awful lot of very nice first round draws shaping up in this event, while qualifying is going to be very, very weak (Michael Yani will be seeded!!!), while James Ward has made his way onto the alternate list (at alternate 7, but he won't be playing here anyway as he's still in Spain)

Boggo would have be about the 10th seed in qualies had he entered here, and since he's still not in Vancouver (although if the SE spots are cleared he will be), not looking such a great decision to miss this now.

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

Why are so many pulling out? Becuase of the Olympics? And will they all escape without punishment, in which case Murray's punishment appears extremely unfair given that this is a 'compulsory' tournament and thus should be punished more harshly than an "any other" even if it is 2 weeks closer to the Olympics.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

imoen wrote:

Why are so many pulling out? Becuase of the Olympics? And will they all escape without punishment, in which case Murray's punishment appears extremely unfair given that this is a 'compulsory' tournament and thus should be punished more harshly than an "any other" even if it is 2 weeks closer to the Olympics.

Nalbandian, Almagro, Tsonga, Hewitt, Ferrero, Baghdatis and Monaco are all injured, while Ljubicic is preparing for the Olympic games.

Ljubicic is the only one who doesn't have a valid reason for withdrawing out of those who made the main draw, and even though a lot of those on the alternate list have withdrawn for no real reason, because they didn't make the original cut, they won't be punished with a 0 because they don't have to play here.

These 8 players won't escape without punishment... they will get a 0 for the event and have to carry it for the next 12 months.

EDIT: Montanes has now withdrawn (along with several more alternates), so Marcos Daniel now makes the cut - Safin is 2 spaces of making the cut here and allowing someone else to take his WC

-- Edited by ForeverDelayed at 14:41, 2008-07-25

-- Edited by ForeverDelayed at 14:41, 2008-07-25

indiana · Tennis legend

ForeverDelayed wrote:
These 8 players won't escape without punishment... they will get a 0 for the event and have to carry it for the next 12 months.

Yes, I suppose the extent of that punishment really depends on how well they would hae done if they had actually appeared,

It is a rather self imposed punishent, and is only 5 points worse than if they got knocked out in the first round, and also treats withdrawals exactly the same as injured players. For some players, where it is a surface that doesn't suit them, it probably isn't really that much of a penalty.

I wonder if the "late" withdrawl rule that applies for optionals applies in some way for compulsories in that someone could also say be given a "zero" optional to carry forward, to distinguish them from injuries. I suspect probably not.

However, the optional event "late" pull-out that Andy received, losing your 18th score, is potentially for some folk much more of a penalty.

OK, if you are Federer, you often don't even have 18th scores, but for those challenging from around 6 - 20 and lower, that 18th score could make big differences to ranking positions, seedings etc.

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

My point about the punishment thing though, is if you miss a compulsory even for injury you get a 0, fine. But if you miss it for no reason (eg Ljubicic you could argue in this case), you're aren't punished more. So there's very little incentive NOT to do that. Whereas the other tournaments, if you're injured there's no penalty at all, but if you pull out for no reason, you are harshly punished. The comparative this creates means it's better to pull out of a compulsory tournament for no reason than it a non-compulsory tournament. I'm not saying pulling out of a normal tournament shouldn't punished, I just this that unnecessary withdrawals from the compulsorys should have a harsher penalty attached, otherwise it doesn't seem fair to me.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

imoen wrote:

My point about the punishment thing though, is if you miss a compulsory even for injury you get a 0, fine. But if you miss it for no reason (eg Ljubicic you could argue in this case), you're aren't punished more. So there's very little incentive NOT to do that. Whereas the other tournaments, if you're injured there's no penalty at all, but if you pull out for no reason, you are harshly punished. The comparative this creates means it's better to pull out of a compulsory tournament for no reason than it a non-compulsory tournament. I'm not saying pulling out of a normal tournament shouldn't punished, I just this that unnecessary withdrawals from the compulsorys should have a harsher penalty attached, otherwise it doesn't seem fair to me.

I do see the point you are making, but...

No-one forces you to play the optional events, so when you sign up for the event, you are committing to playing the event, so if you pull out late for no reason at all, then the ATP will argue that you simply should never have signed up in the first place. eg. if Murray didn't plan to play Indianapolis, then he shouldn't have signed up to play it(I think it's just late withdrawals that are punished, not just any withdrawal, but not 100% on that)

While with a MS event, your ranking commits you to the event so you don't have a choice as to whether you take part or not, and because they try to encourage all the bigger players to play, you are punished by getting a 0 for your ranking.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Updated yet AGAIN. Marcos Daniel (in per FD's post above) is now out and Florent Serra is in.

I added the wild cards while I was editing.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

Cincinatti draw is out!

(1)FEDERER, Roger SUI/BYE
QUALIFIER v GINEPRI, Robby USA
ANCIC, Mario CRO v ACASUSO, Jose ARG
BELLUCCI, Thomaz BRA v (16) KARLOVIC, Ivo CRO
(12) ROBREDO, Tommy ESP v FISH, Mardy USA
BENNETEAU, Julien FRA v SODERLING, Robin SWE
KOHLSCHREIBER, Philipp GER v QUALIFIER
BYE/(6) RODDICK, Andy USA

(4) DAVYDENKO, Nikolay RUS/BYE
TIPSAREVIC, Janko SRB v MOYA, Carlos ESP
(WC) ISNER, John USA v QUALIFIER
ANDREEV, Igor RUS v (15) STEPANEK, Radek CZE
(11) GASQUET, Richard FRA v LLODRA, Michael FRA
TURSUNOV, Dmitry RUS v (WC) SAFIN, Marat RUS
QUERREY, Sam USA v MATHIEU, Paul-Henri FRA
BYE/(8) MURRAY, Andy GBR

(7) BLAKE, James/BYE
KIEFER, Nicolas v SIMON, Gilles
NIEMINEN, Jarkko v GULBIS, Ernests
JOHANSSON, Thomas v (9) WAWRINKA, Stanislas
GONZALEZ, Fernando v BERDYCH, Tomas
LOPEZ, Feliciano v SEPPI, Andreas
QUALIFIER v BOLELLI, Simone
BYE/(3) DJOKOVIC, Novak

(5) FERRER, David/BYE
LAPENTTI, Nicolas v CILIC, Marin
(WC) LEVINE, Jesse v QUALIFIER
QUALIFIER v VERDASCO, Fernando
YOUZHNY, Mikhail v HAAS, Tommy
MONFILS, Gael v (WC) YOUNG, Donald
QUALIFIER v SERRA, Florent
BYE/(2) NADAL, Rafael

Murray's in Davydenko's Quarter, and in Federer's half... with Gasquet in the R16... Querrey or PHM in round 2

Some fun draws as well, with Gasquet/Llodra in round 1 again, while the Kiefer/Blake semi in Toronto is a round 1 match here (with Blake in round 2)

-- Edited by ForeverDelayed at 00:35, 2008-07-26

indiana · Tennis legend

So the positions of the top 8 seeds in the draw are the same as Toronto, with just Murray and Blake swapping places.

Look for Nadal and Djokovic to unexpectedly drop out early this week, and for Gasquet, Davydenko and Federer to be in great form

christian · Intermediate Club Player

Incidentally Wawrinka has pulled out as well now, making Andy's job of holding 9th that bit easier.