Week 4 - Futures F2 (10k) - Sheffield, Great Britain

Yorkie · Lower Club Player

RE: Week 4 - Futures F2 (10k) - Sheffield, Great Britain

Bladetiger · Pro player

Without wishing to stir up a hornets nest, those who belong in the top 100 ARE in the top 100.

Notwithstanding the ever-present 'when will Boggo reach the top 100' debate who else are you thinking about as belonging in the top 100?

Things are in quite a mess, that we DO agree on!

-- Edited by Bladetiger at 17:35, 2008-01-25

James · Satellite level

I agree Blad.. Nobody 'deserves' by right to be in the top 100, you earn the right to move up the rankings and into the main tour through hard work and the correct attitude, unfortunately qualities that I believe players such as Boggo have let themselves down on in recent times.

After visiting the Sheffield futures I think part of the problem is that many of the lower ranked players are simply happy to enjoy the experience of travelling with the tour rather than seriously attempting to push towards their peak level. And unless they have the desire to join the challenger/atp tour they will never become anything more than a journyman future player.

Lets hope things improve though as so far January and 2008 has been dire.

RobC · All-time great

James wrote:
Lets hope things improve though as so far January and 2008 has been dire.

Cheer up James, I think I remember Jamie Baker qualifying for a Grand Slam, Andy winning an ATP title, Boggo beating Ginepri and Slabba making the top 500.....

There's my half-full glass!

Bladetiger · Pro player

And Bloomers won a future, Seator's made a semi, and Flan the Man's back, all hail, we're saved!!

helki · Futures qualifying

James wrote:

I agree Blad.. Nobody 'deserves' by right to be in the top 100, you earn the right to move up the rankings and into the main tour through hard work and the correct attitude, unfortunately qualities that I believe players such as Boggo have let themselves down on in recent times.

After visiting the Sheffield futures I think part of the problem is that many of the lower ranked players are simply happy to enjoy the experience of travelling with the tour rather than seriously attempting to push towards their peak level. And unless they have the desire to join the challenger/atp tour they will never become anything more than a journyman future player.

Lets hope things improve though as so far January and 2008 has been dire.

I have to agree with you James on the points you make in your first paragraph.

Added to that I'd plump for talent. Talent, hard work and the correct attitude and we'd have more players vying for a move into the ATP/Challenger tour circuits.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

the problem is that its possible for players to get 'stuck in a rut'

a long time ago hewitt warned this about boggo after their tough dc match. he basicly said that he expects to see boggo in the top 100 soon but its not certain as its possible to get caught at challenger lvl and after a while find it really hard to get out, pretty arrcuate from the ozzie,

compare to andy who bascily shot through challenger level after a few set backs, he got some momentum and breezed through never to return

christian · Intermediate Club Player

Sorry to sound harsh but the way Boggo is playing he won't have to worry about being stuck in a rut at challenger level for too long.

There are some positives so far this year and I do think the DC is having a big impact but it's looking somewhat depressing at present. Just 2 players playing challengers at present and they are only on the bottom end of geting DA's. Bloomers is looking ok at futures but should be playing challengers and Goodall just seems to have gone to pieces.

Even the next level don't really seem to be ready to push on so it's difficult not be a little down at present.

mjd · Challenger qualifying

Count Zero wrote:

the problem is that its possible for players to get 'stuck in a rut'

a long time ago hewitt warned this about boggo after their tough dc match. he basicly said that he expects to see boggo in the top 100 soon but its not certain as its possible to get caught at challenger lvl and after a while find it really hard to get out, pretty arrcuate from the ozzie,

compare to andy who bascily shot through challenger level after a few set backs, he got some momentum and breezed through never to return

My analogy:-
I think it's a bit like going up a series of escalators that are coming down , pausing is like not matching your points but a swift dash to the top (100) and its easier to stay near the top even if you stumble occasionally, you're still near the top escalator. (DA into events etc. make it easier)
So like you said - Andy (and Hewitt) breezed thro, hardly playing futures at all, but then it is not possible for eveyone to get into the top 100 and that is where natural ability and fitness come into play - without it the top flight will never be reached, determination alone is not enough otherwise AFJ would be there.
I think it's unreasonable to criticise Boggo, I have no doubt that every time he plays he goes out to win but so does the guy the other side of the net! And maybe that's where that one element over which we have very little or no control enters into the equation - the mind game!

DJ · County player

Don't be so down-hearted, folks - look at the 'Successes' thread. In the 4 weeks of 2008, we have won 4 titles (Andy in Doha, Jamie D in Brazil, Richard in Sunderland, Richard and Ken, also in Sunderland.
My, admittedly dodgy, maths extrapolates that to 52 titles this year for our men. Even we would be happy with that, surely?

Yorkie · Lower Club Player

Bloomers is defo a top 200 player for me and i always thought Goodall would make the top 100 but now after having a rethink i really can't see it happening, once upon a time he was competing and beating top players and his result this week was shocking!!!

I don't want to be seen as Mr Negative though i do see alot of positives from the younger players such as evans and cox and i also see alot of promise from Eaton and Ward, both 20 and both brillant players already!!!

john · Top national player

Sorry, but it pains me to say that I really don't think of Bloomers as a top 200 player. He did great to get there but I when he was there I always thought he was a little overranked and would do well to stay there. I must admit I haven't seen a great deal of him playing but from what I have seen he's 200-300 at best.

Yorkie · Lower Club Player

He has had some great tussels with Tsonga who is now in the Aussie open final, and unfortunately Bloomers has gone the other way! i guess he just hasn't developed his game

A couple of players i have not mentioned that are very talented of course are jonny Marray and Morgan Phillips................it will be great to get a couple more brits to keep an eye on once they return!

Bladetiger · Pro player

DJ wrote:

Don't be so down-hearted, folks - look at the 'Successes' thread. In the 4 weeks of 2008, we have won 4 titles (Andy in Doha, Jamie D in Brazil, Richard in Sunderland, Richard and Ken, also in Sunderland.
My, admittedly dodgy, maths extrapolates that to 52 titles this year for our men. Even we would be happy with that, surely?

I'll give you Andy, and good result for Richard at a level below he should be playing at, but if we're gonna count futures doubles wins then it's embarrasing.

Top 100 doubles is about playing 18 doubles events a year not much more, singles is where it's at if we're honest , if you play doubles seriously every week, then you'll get in the top 100. doubles isnt much more than a way of practising with a ball boy present unless you're on the ATP tour.

Dont think Yorkie's being overly negative and Eaton and Ward have a lot to prove yet, think biggest problem is that there are so many good players around that it's painful to admit that we only have one player that deserves to be on the top 100, Boggo could possibly make it on a yoyo basis , but dont see him being a year in year out top 100 player. Could go on about the others but I wouldnt be wanting to slag them off just to say that it's really hard.

I did have a quick look thru' the ATP site to see what our players records were against top 100 and top 200 players, quite revealing.

Last year

Boogo v Top 100 2-7
v 101-200 3 -7

Baker v top 100 1-2
v 101- 200 4 -11

Bloomfield v top 100 0-4
v 101-200 5-5

Goodall v top 100 0-3
v 101-200 0-2

On that evidence it is hard to argue that any of our players have demonstrated an ability to consistently beat players in the top 200, with Bloomers having the best record with a 5-5 record against players between 101- 200, this is based on their ranking as shown on the ATP site, not sure if its ranking or race position. For the first tournaments of the year, I did it based on their WR at the time according to Ranking history.

Not saying this to slag anyone off, just to prove once again that its easier to talk about being in the top 100/ top 200 (delete as appropriate) and much harder to prove that you're good enough to play there.

Yorkie · Lower Club Player

Bladetiger wrote:

DJ wrote:

Don't be so down-hearted, folks - look at the 'Successes' thread. In the 4 weeks of 2008, we have won 4 titles (Andy in Doha, Jamie D in Brazil, Richard in Sunderland, Richard and Ken, also in Sunderland.
My, admittedly dodgy, maths extrapolates that to 52 titles this year for our men. Even we would be happy with that, surely?

I'll give you Andy, and good result for Richard at a level below he should be playing at, but if we're gonna count futures doubles wins then it's embarrasing.

Top 100 doubles is about playing 18 doubles events a year not much more, singles is where it's at if we're honest , if you play doubles seriously every week, then you'll get in the top 100. doubles isnt much more than a way of practising with a ball boy present unless you're on the ATP tour.

Dont think Yorkie's being overly negative and Eaton and Ward have a lot to prove yet, think biggest problem is that there are so many good players around that it's painful to admit that we only have one player that deserves to be on the top 100, Boggo could possibly make it on a yoyo basis , but dont see him being a year in year out top 100 player. Could go on about the others but I wouldnt be wanting to slag them off just to say that it's really hard.

I did have a quick look thru' the ATP site to see what our players records were against top 100 and top 200 players, quite revealing.

Last year

Boogo v Top 100 2-7
v 101-200 3 -7

Baker v top 100 1-2
v 101- 200 4 -11

Bloomfield v top 100 0-4
v 101-200 5-5

Goodall v top 100 0-3
v 101-200 0-2

On that evidence it is hard to argue that any of our players have demonstrated an ability to consistently beat players in the top 200, with Bloomers having the best record with a 5-5 record against players between 101- 200, this is based on their ranking as shown on the ATP site, not sure if its ranking or race position. For the first tournaments of the year, I did it based on their WR at the time according to Ranking history.

Not saying this to slag anyone off, just to prove once again that its easier to talk about being in the top 100/ top 200 (delete as appropriate) and much harder to prove that you're good enough to play there.

those stats are a real eye opener, things can only get better i guess!