I don't agree with Cox struggling against big hitters as he has beaten plenty of them. Today was just an off day against a talented young player.


That's the end of men's tennis for him this year. I think that he has come a long way given how little he has played and next year should be even better.

Brilliant report DJ - shocking though - we must lead the world in the talent to self-destruct.

Thanks, Imoen, Goldfish, Rob, Arka and Steven, for your kind words and welcome.

If I may, I'll pick up your points one by one:
Goldfish - I'm afraid I'm not a circuit regular, so don't actually recognise any coaches. There were lots of folk hanging over the gallery, many of them in tracksuits with impressive logos, but being shy, I didn't like to examine them - the badges, that is!! The only obvious coach - or mentor, perhaps - was with Ken Skupski; very positive-seeming conversations, before, between and after his matches. I very much agree with the implication of your comment - having someone to drop in a word, or look, of advice at the appropriate moment would certainly have won Ian Flanagan's match for him, and very possibly Josh Goodall's too. I still can't get over how talented Flanagan looked during his 'up' spells - like watching a top, top player.
Rob - I'm humbled, though perhaps not humble! I do enjoy your and Steven's tables, especially the daily updates on the top players.
Imoen - grovelling apologies for not having put you on your deserved pedastal. Please can I now have my brownie points back, or should I grovel some more? Seriously, though, there are 5 or 6 correspondents whose comments are a particular pleasure to read, including those of your fair self, but I felt it would be invidious to mention them, as everyone else might have been offended, and, as I've spent my professional career trying to boost the confidence of ALL my pupils, I was trying to avoid failing that principle here. (What a long sentence, sorry) But, as the host on 'Strictly Come dancing' says, 'You're my favourite!'
Arka - I bow to your much greater knowledge of the youngsters coming through; I was simply reporting on what I saw yesterday. Young Dan might well have beaten some power players this season, and might well have done so yesterday, if he'd been on form; I can't comment on that aspect, as I'd never previously seen him play. All I can comment on is what I saw, which was a clear disparity in yesterday's power output, a disparity which made the match very one-sided. I'm not, though, suggesting that it's par for Dan's particular course, nor that it necessarily means he doesn't have real prospects of a future in the senior game. I was actually more worried at seeing him, apparently, hanging on Josh Goodall's every word, half an hour after Goodall's, to me, shameful display. Again, though, I saw only snap-shots, so may well be mis-reading the situation - I certainly hope so.
On a different theme, can I note the pleasure your 'signature' gives me each time I read it; I hope it's not copyright, as I circulated it round all my email pals who have a mathematical bent, and even some who don't! Brilliant!
Steven - I so much agree; repeating the implicit views Goldfish and I shared earlier, I do feel that having the right people around our players just might make the difference. Again, though, I simply don't have the background knowledge - perhaps the finance doesn't exist to hire such back-up, perhaps the people are there, doing their best, but the players aren't listening, perhaps ... Who knows; I certainly don't.

DJ wrote:

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Arka - I bow to your much greater knowledge of the youngsters coming through; I was simply reporting on what I saw yesterday. Young Dan might well have beaten some power players this season, and might well have done so yesterday, if he'd been on form; I can't comment on that aspect, as I'd never previously seen him play. All I can comment on is what I saw, which was a clear disparity in yesterday's power output, a disparity which made the match very one-sided. I'm not, though, suggesting that it's par for Dan's particular course, nor that it necessarily means he doesn't have real prospects of a future in the senior game. I was actually more worried at seeing him, apparently, hanging on Josh Goodall's every word, half an hour after Goodall's, to me, shameful display. Again, though, I saw only snap-shots, so may well be mis-reading the situation - I certainly hope so.

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Oh, okay. 


Thanks for liking the signature. It's not my creation, though. I just picked it randomly on some site and loved it.

And the number of sports you play/played is quite impressive!

How much does anyone think age/maturity is linked to success in tennis? Surely players continue to grow and learn and become better with experience (in life as well as tennis)

The reason for including in this thread is that in the majority of the Futures events this year our players will have been some of the youngest in the tournament.

At Sunderland this week we had 11 GB players with an average age of 21.6yrs compared to 21 overseas players with an average age of 24.2yrs. I, for one, am not altogether surprised that greater maturity has helped in these fields (indeed Ken at 24 is the last Brit standing).

Also, whilst it's not a great advert for players to have tantrums on court and doesn't usually help a player's cause, it can usually be attributed to a players maturity (and even Josh is only 22). There are plenty of examples within this forum of overseas players acting like brats and imploding on court so I don't think this is just a GB problem.

My initial thoughts are that male players reach their peak at around 26 or 27 and that this would be the average age of a player in the Top 300 (my gut feel  only)

The reason for raising this is because the average age of the active GB players is considerably lower than this and of our Top 20 active players we only have only one in this age bracket (Jonny Marray) and the average age of Britain's active Top 20 is just 22.

Our players just outside the Top 500 and ages:
Kasiri - 21
Seator - 21
Ward - 20
Slabinsky - 21
Rushby - 21
Blake - 20
Eaton - 19

I think maybe expectations are a little too high too early and these players, ability wise, should be able to rise up the rankings as they continue to develop.

However, how many of these players will still be competing professionally by the age of 26/27? and why do we not have any players currently at that age (Jonny M apart)? Does anyone know what has happened to our players born between 1980 and 1981 and why they are not competing?

My guess is that money is the biggest contributing factor here and that in Britain by the age of about 23 if a player hasn't cracked the Top 300 they have the backstop of finding an alternative career that pays much better (indeed coaching tennis at a local health club is probably far more lucrative and a lot less demanding). Maybe the LTA encourages this by putting so much money into coaching?

If this is the case then we will never have a clutch of players in the Top 300 (journeymen or otherwise)

I have no idea how our top players compare age wise to our European neighbours but even in this tournament we welcomed six Italians all aged between 24 and 28.

Statisticians (Rob) if you're bored it would be interesting to compare the average age of the Top20 players for the DC World Group nations. Also, if its something you derive from your ranking calculator, the average age of players in the Top100, Top 200, Top 300 etc. If this isn't easy to do I'll do some analysis if anyone else is interested.

Anyway, my hypothesis for why we do not have many players in the Top300/Top 500 is that our players do have talent at an early age but that they do not fulfil their potential and are lost to the game before they reach their peak. My guess is that this is usually a lifestyle choice but a choice that is easier to make in GB than in other countries.

Apologies for long post, and if it seems I'm stating the obvious, but just some food for thought

no problem Rob, i hoped you had your own mighty database that could be queried - I might try and do a bit of analysis over the weekend then