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Post Info TOPIC: PARIS MASTERS PICKEM


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PARIS MASTERS PICKEM


You can now enter the Paris AMS pick 'em via http://www.britishtennis.net/competitions.html , the deadline is Monday at 10.00 GMT, which by then will be 10 am UK.

With Paris AMS always at risk of having a top seed or two withdraw at the last moment, please make sure you click the Print button at the bottom of the entry form to print your picks when you have made them (if you are able to print them) so that you can amend your picks quickly at the last moment if you notice that someone whom you have picked to go a long way withdraws in the next day or two.

Two main draw matches will be played on Sunday, i.e. before the entry deadline. If you need to enter before that, don't worry, we will correct any picks you made for Sunday's matches (whichever matches they turn out to be) and if you had a winner of a Sunday match going on to win matches in later rounds too, we will switch those picks to the player who beat him.

The reasons for extending the entry deadline past the time of the first two R1 matches are:

- Paris AMS is more at risk of late w/ds than most tournaments, so giving you until as late as possible to enter seems sensible
- qualifiers won't be placed until after those two R1 matches have finished and there are two QvQ matches that will be a complete lottery withouth that information

As well as the race for individual and team glory in Paris itself, there is also the little matter of who is going to end up as year-end no. 1 in the overall rankings, who is going to make it into the top 10 and so on.

You can click here for the overall rankings after Madrid.

However, after Madrid, each player's top 5 scores counted towards their totals (with any slam score allowed to count as either one or two identical scores within those 5) , but after Paris, it will be the top 6 scores that matter. (*)

Because of this I have also published a separate, temporary table showing what the position would be if nobody got any ranking points from Paris (i.e. if just the current 6th best scores were added in for anyone who has 6 or more scores already) and how the positions would differ from the official positions after Madrid.

I have also added an extra "6th B" column in red to show how many ranking points players need to get from the Paris pick 'em before the total of their best 6 ranking points starts to rise. You can click here to see the adjusted table.

(*) N.B. this will go up to top 7 scores after the AO, but will then stay at 7 thereafter once year-old pick 'em scores start being defended/dropping off

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Oscar Wilde



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Some of the players on other boards said they couldn't be bothered to enter last time because they couldn't represent their normal teams, so I've given people the same team options as for slam pick 'ems this time, but raised the minumum number of entrants for a team to be shown on the teams table to 12, which should make it reasonably fair to use straight averages instead of adjusted averages for the teeams competition. Those whose teams might be too small are given the option to pick an alternative our of AM/BT or they will be lumped together as 'The Rest' again.

Slam pick 'ems will continue to be open to teams of 5 or more, with the same adjusted scores as for Wimby/USO applying.


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To look at a thing is quite different from seeing a thing and one does not see anything until one sees its beauty


Oscar Wilde



Tennis legend

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Half an hour left to enter (at the time of writing), there were 86 entrants by 7 am this morning, but not enough of you lot! furious

biggrin

-- Edited by steven at 10:31, 2007-10-29

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



All-time great

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gahh - missed it - I was waiting for the qualies to be inluded in the draw and then I saw that there'd already ben 2 round 1 games yeaterday and assumed I was too late.

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Top national player

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Damn and blast. Missed it too

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Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive....  those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience



Futures qualifying

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I know there are those who would like to see Belgium split into 2 countries but I didn't realise one of them is Wales! I think the flags have slipped a bit.

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Sorry Goldfish, I think you caught the page during the 30 secs it takes to update, it's all OK now. smile.gif

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To look at a thing is quite different from seeing a thing and one does not see anything until one sees its beauty


Oscar Wilde



Futures qualifying

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Thanks - just found it amusing.

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Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

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Glad to hear it, are you one of those who want Belgium to be split in two? Whereabouts in Belgium do you live?

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To look at a thing is quite different from seeing a thing and one does not see anything until one sees its beauty


Oscar Wilde



Futures qualifying

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No, the country is small enough as it is. I live in Genval, just south of Brussels. Do you know the country? Actually I seem to be out of it more than in it at the moment. Currently in France and stupidly tried to get the masters series streaming yesterday only to discover that it's not available here. That'll teach me to read the conditions before I pay! Relying on livescores and commentary.

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I don't know the country well but I spent some time in Brussels over the summer and picked up the politics (I was doing work experience in the EU, hard not to pick up the politics!). I'm trying to stay in touch with what's going on, and interested to hear what someone who lives there thinks rather than just reading what the media is saying. smile.gif

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To look at a thing is quite different from seeing a thing and one does not see anything until one sees its beauty


Oscar Wilde



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BT could still win Paris, but you need Numpty to win the title (quickly gets out garlic and crucifix to ward off the devil) in order to do it.

A bit about next year.

2008 SCHEDULE

Bethan and I intend to run another 10-11 slam and AMS pick 'ems next year:

- the AO
- IW and/or Miami (*)
- two out of Monte Carlo, Rome and Hamburg (*)
- Roland Garros
- Wimby
- Cincy or Canada (*)
- the USO
- Madrid
- Paris

(*) These options to be decided nearer the time, when we know how much time we have, how early/late each main draw is likely to come out and so on and ranking points will drop off when the points for the equivalent competition go on the system, e.g. if we do a Canada AMS pick 'em and not a Cincy pick 'em, Cincy points will come off when Canada points are added, though Miami points will only drop off after IW if we are not going to do a Miami pick 'em as well.

Once the AO has been played, overall pick 'em rankings will be decided based on each player's best 7 ranking point scores, with slam points able to be counted and it will then remain 'best 7' as points start to drop off from this year's events and will only ever rise to best 8 if we do add an extra comp next year.

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Tennis legend

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2008 SCORING

One of the features of the current pick 'em scoring system (let's call it option A), with the points per win doubling each round, is that entrants can make huge moves up and down the table during the later rounds and, to a large extent, you are always in with a chance of making a significant move up the table until your last surviving pick goes out.

That's great, since it tends to keep most people interested all the way through, but it can sometimes be a bit brutal. It doesn't mean that whether or not you pick the correct champion is all that matters (a lot of pick 'ems turn out to have been decided by R1 or R2 scores if lots of people pick the same champion), but getting the correct champion is hugely important, perhaps too important?

Probably the most accurate measure of prediction skill is how many picks people get right, as shown in the 'Correct Picks' column, but because a large majority of the matches in a tournament are played in the first two rounds, I think basing the final results on one point per pick (let's call that option B) would kill the competition for most of the entrants too early on.

If we are going to change the scoring system at all, the end of the first year is reasonably sensible point at which to do it, so we have been looking at possible 'compromises' that might give us the best of both worlds.

Options we discounted

Basing points per pick on the Race points for reaching each round (e.g. 7, 15, 25, 45, 70, 100 for an AMS) would be a bit less extreme than the existing system, but probably not enough to make it worth the complication of changing.

Basing points per pick on the change in race points for reaching each round (i.e. 7, 8, 10, 20, 25, 30 for an AMS) would be even less extreme, but the ATP's increments are a bit illogical, e.g. 7 -> 8, then later on a big leap from 10 -> 20, then back to 20 -> 25 and we think this would seem too complicated as well.

Our preferred option (at the moment)

We think the best scoring system might be a simple 1 for a R1 win, 2 for a R2 win, 3 for a R3 win, 4 for a R4 win and so on, let's call that Option C. It still makes picking the correct winner and the correct finalists important, but not in quite such an extreme way, and still ensures some big moves up and down the table late in the tournament, but again without being quite so extreme.

Example - Cincy 2007

As an example, have a look at the Cincy pick 'em results. In this pick 'em, all of those who had picked Fed to win ended up in the top 35 and all of those who picked anyone else to win ended up below all of Fed-to-win entrants. The latter group included Rochelle, who was leading all the way up to the Final but experienced a brutal drop from 1st to 36th through not having picked Fed to win, ending up below a couple of entrants who got just 20 picks correct throughout the tournament compared to Rochelle's 30!

Changing from the 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 - 32 to the 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 system would have produced these alternative results (the change in position column shows the effect of the change in scoring system in this case) - as you can see, the top half of the table is still dominated by Feddies, but Rochelle would only have dropped three places to 4th on the final day and at least a couple more of those who got the champion pick wrong would have ended up in the top half, with positions more evenly spread between those with different winner picks in the bottom half. Have a look and see if you think it looks fairer or not.

N.B. Please try to look at this without paying too much attention to whether you or your friends would have done better or worse under the new system yourself - those who would have done better under the new system at Cincy could well do worse under it in other comps and vice versa!

Just to be absolutely clear, if we do change the scoring system, it will be for next year, we will NOT recalculate past tournaments like this and we will NOT change the names of past winners!
As in tennis, we play to the rules as they are at the time! smile

Comments please!

Anyway, comments are very welcome before we make a final decision, including suggestions we haven't thought of yet. :bigsmile: We might even put it to a vote on the AO pick 'em entry form if it's clear that there is no consensus.

P.S. Anyone worried that any change might mean a lot of work, thank you for thinking of that, but don't worry - a change to the scoring system (as long as it is as simple as options B or C) is one of the easiest things to do on the spreadsheet and takes a matter of seconds.

P.P.S. To anyone perceptive enough to have already worked out that this change will probably make all the final scores closer and hence usually reduce the bonus ranking points a future tournament winner would get, thus disadvantaging them against those who won tournaments this year while they still have their points on the system, that can easily be coped with by increasing the number of bonus points awarded per 0.1% above the average for next year after analysing the differences it would have made this year, so it's not a problem.



-- Edited by steven at 12:33, 2007-11-04

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Club Coach

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I think the scoring system is great as it is.  It means you can gamble for a big score by going for an unusual winner, or play safe with Fed/Rafa.

Also the big variations keep it exciting until the last moment.

If you've already lost all your picks by the semi final (e.g like me last time !!) then tough, pick a bit better next time.

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