Week 29 - Challenger (M) - Manchester

RobC · All-time great

RE: Week 29 - Challenger (M) - Manchester

forsake · Social player

Any news on Aisam guyz??? confused

-- Edited by forsake at 11:42, 2007-07-19

Goldenslam · Intermediate Club Player

RobC wrote:

Goldenslam wrote:

RobC Wrote
I stand corrected So they shouldn't try to copy what the top pros do? just listen to their own coach?

-- Edited by RobC at 08:09, 2007-07-19

I don't believe players should try & copy what the "top pros" do, this sport is very individual & each & every player is different - technically,mentally & physically- on top of that the game is constantly getting faster & changing, there are juniors today doing things that the pros of today wouldn't have dreamed of doing as juniors & I think for the juniors to copy what the pros are doing is only developing a game for today & not tomorrow. Do you think Agassi, Seles & Graf tried to copy the top pros of their junior days?...NO otherwise the game wouldn't have moved forwards as it has, just like Federer, Nadal & the Williams has developed games up a notch from the previous era. By all means juniors can dream of being ranked etc where top pros are but to copy is too short sighted, how many Mcenroes, Borgs, Sampras' & Navratilovas have there been? one of each & thats what makes tennis what it is, its unique!! So yes players should listern to their coaches, take on board what is being taught & deliver it each & every time they step in to a tennis facility, only then with a mixture of hard work & bravery will we produce players that juniors in future years will be looking up to & training to be better than!!

Count Zero · Tennis legend

i am not sure if Rob ment copy to top pros shos, but copy their approach to the game overall.

i can't believe your agrument that players can learn as much in the locker room about opponents than they can from actually watching the matches themselves (unless their friends are more inshighful i guess).

cant really comment on actions after loses, it depends on how they have played, to have played well, given 100% and lost then i guess they shouldnt be too upset, its after they have lost matches they should have won the reaction is more important

RobC · All-time great

Goldenslam wrote:

I don't believe players should try & copy what the "top pros" do, this sport is very individual & each & every player is different -

Agree with you totally, Golden. Looks like we're in a classic messageboard misunderstanding - apologies, I'd not made myself clear:

I was writing in the context of Gazz's view that the lads didn't seem to be taking things seriously enough.

Now I'll take your point that this perception may be wrong - typical fan's view that the players have to seem up for it at all times etc etc... but if they were slightly less professional than (say) a Nadal or a (new, improved, post Brad)Murray, then Gazz wrote that this attitude was the coach's fault and not that of the lads themselves.

My argument was that they should be looking at the top pros and copying their attitude and professionalism - not their game: If Murray spend a lot of time watching tennis and getting his head around an opponent's game so that he can work out what weaknesses he can exploit with his game, then maybe it's a good idea for a rising star to do the same. If Boggo (finally) realises that the level of work he was putting into strength and fitness before wasn't enough to make the next step, then maybe a youngster can learn from that.

Absolutely, the new players will win or lose by their own game, and a top quality coach will understand what their strengths and weaknesses and character is and work with that rather than against it. However, to say (as Gazz did) that a player's professionalism is down to his coaching, rather than his own responsibility is, in my (humble, non - playing, non- coaching, ignorant, fan- centric) point of view wrong.

Hope that's a bit clearer, and you feel a bit less insulted. And Gazz, I'm sure you didn't mean to imply what I've inferred from your post!

RobC · All-time great

Latest from the Press office in Manchester (so that Forsake can relax until tomorrow)

Qureshi bt Uebel 6-4 6-4
Bopanna bt Meffert 3-6 6-3 7-6(6)

They're now playing outdoors!!

forsake · Social player

Yes, yes, yes!!! Thnkx Rob! U ROCK Sir!!!

Sheddie · administrator

Relieved that one Brit managed to make it through to rd2 even though it was courtesy of a retirement ! Stroke of luck for Josh as he has so much to defend this week. Levy will be tricky, I think Josh will take it but we can't rate the Israeli off, he may be down at 260ish but he's a former top 30 player. Not really a power hitter, his ability to mix things up with the different spins is what's got him to the top...similar type of player to Hicham Arazi, remember him ?

A shame that Childs wasn't able to keep up his winning streak against Bopanna who's a good server but those are the matches he needs to start winning to get back in the top 300. He has to make hay on the grass and indoors, never really had much success on the outdoor hard. Two more grass tournaments to try and pick up some pts

gazzpash · Club Coach

RobC wrote:

Goldenslam wrote:

I don't believe players should try & copy what the "top pros" do, this sport is very individual & each & every player is different -
Agree with you totally, Golden. Looks like we're in a classic messageboard misunderstanding - apologies, I'd not made myself clear:

I was writing in the context of Gazz's view that the lads didn't seem to be taking things seriously enough.

Now I'll take your point that this perception may be wrong - typical fan's view that the players have to seem up for it at all times etc etc... but if they were slightly less professional than (say) a Nadal or a (new, improved, post Brad)Murray, then Gazz wrote that this attitude was the coach's fault and not that of the lads themselves.

My argument was that they should be looking at the top pros and copying their attitude and professionalism - not their game: If Murray spend a lot of time watching tennis and getting his head around an opponent's game so that he can work out what weaknesses he can exploit with his game, then maybe it's a good idea for a rising star to do the same. If Boggo (finally) realises that the level of work he was putting into strength and fitness before wasn't enough to make the next step, then maybe a youngster can learn from that.

Absolutely, the new players will win or lose by their own game, and a top quality coach will understand what their strengths and weaknesses and character is and work with that rather than against it. However, to say (as Gazz did) that a player's professionalism is down to his coaching, rather than his own responsibility is, in my (humble, non - playing, non- coaching, ignorant, fan- centric) point of view wrong.

Hope that's a bit clearer, and you feel a bit less insulted. And Gazz, I'm sure you didn't mean to imply what I've inferred from your post!

Oh dear - looks like I caused bit of problem here! what I meant from my comment was that the coach who was there on the day, from the MB initials on his top guessing its Martin Bohm, didnt seem to educate the players about the importance of each match and consequences of loses etc. What Rob meant was that it should be the players responsibility as well to watch how professionals approach and analysis matches.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Goldenslam wrote:

To be honest I think that the above is just laughable & I take it as an insult. I work in performance, with some top juniors & I know for a fact that each & every player who has the slightest future at a professional level are given the correct pre & post match routines i.e warming up, cooling down, stretching, eating & showering. Part of this is scouting potential opponents & to make notes or mental notes but to be honest you can get just as much information from guys in the locker room on opponents as you will always know somebody who has played your potential opponent/s. To say that the losses do not hurt enough is unfair on the boys also, they have given up much of their childhood to be where they are & haven't done so to be ranked 1000ATP, they want to reach the top & any losses hurt & hurt deeply but they have been trained to pick out what needs to be improved as well as positives & move onwards & upwards. That being said they are also realistic & know that winning matches at challenger level is a tall order, when the whole idea of the exercise is to gain match experience at such a high level at this stage. In order for us to produce results & players we need to stop looking at totally useless points & realise that when it comes to this level of competition all the players have had the right training & imput but ultimately it is up to them to deliver on & off court & stop needing coaches to hold their hand & just stand on their own 2 feet & be professional..... which I believe our top juniors are currently doing like never before.

Couldn't have put it in a better way myself. smile

At this moment we have five players who are still in their Junior years but are winning matches in Futures. And unless things go really wrong, at least three more should be doing the same by the end of the year. That's not something that was happening two years ago.

Salmon · Tennis legend

gazzpash wrote:
Also, overheard Dyce say he's looking at the College courses in America. Hope he reconsiders as we'd lose him like Skupski and Kinsella for a good 3-4 years. When they return they wont have the tour experience. He did also say Ed Corrie is going to Texas, so there's another one down. We need to be encouraging these players to take Tennis as a career.

That's great news!

Players go to colleges because they aren't good enough to take the Tour at that moment (in most cases). Skupski wouldn't have been half as good as now if he hadn't gone. Look at where people like Benjamin Becker and Delic were at the age of 18, and look at where they are now. You get international standard training facilities (for free!), plus you play against opposition that's way higher than Futures players at times.

When Skupski was 18, he had a career high ranking of 133 in Juniors and his best performance in men's tennis had been a second round appearence at a Futures qualies. Obviously no one can guarantee something in tennis, but those sorts of records don't exactly suggest a top 400 player, forget top 200.

And it doesn't mean that they aren't choosing tennis as a career. It just means that they will have something else to do in case they don't make much money out of tennis when they become pros.

Goldenslam · Intermediate Club Player

Count Zero - what I meant by players asking fellow players in the locker room about future opponents is common place at all levels f the pofessional game, I agree fullythat players should watch opponents but to get an insight from a player who has played a future opponent can be more than useful i.e weight of shot & spin, favoured shots, Service direction on big points etc etc. I agree that players do need to scout but they can get just as much information in the locker room & maybe the odd dvd......? But for any player to get to this level they all have that professionalism & skill in scouting future opponents, just some go in to more detail than others, again you could class this as a form of preperation in which some do a lot & others can do little.

RobC · All-time great

Josh lost

Levy bt Goodall 6-4 3-6 6-3

Which sends Josh down to around 310 - 320

Sheddie · administrator

Huta-Galung got in big trouble yesterday as after losing his match, he smashed his racket and dented the centre court

Big fine heading his way !

RedCabbage · Club Coach

Goldenslam wrote:

how many Mcenroes, Borgs, Sampras' & Navratilovas have there been? one of each...

That's not strictly true. If I remember correctly from Star Trek there have been literally billions of borgs.