British Tennis Forum - Celebrating 20 Years!

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

This year's Wimbledon dashed hopes - the latest inquest has already begun

Var · Challenger qualifying

Stircrazy wrote:
Jonathan Jurejko has thrown his cap in the ring for the Beeb.

Too much emphasis on junior tournaments?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yet again Tim Henman shows he's no idea what he's talking about:

"Players like Billy Harris, Ollie Tarvet and Toby Samuel came through qualifying at Wimbledon," said Henman.

"Others are pushing from the top 250 towards the top 100. That's where I'm optimistic. That pipeline is much stronger than it used to be."

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Yet again Tim Henman shows he's no idea what he's talking about:

"Players like Billy Harris, Ollie Tarvet and Toby Samuel came through qualifying at Wimbledon," said Henman.

"Others are pushing from the top 250 towards the top 100. That's where I'm optimistic. That pipeline is much stronger than it used to be."

His basic message was what I was immediately thinking about re the increasingly healthy state on the men's side below the top 100, with a generally good age profile and upward momentum ( the women's side is another matter ).

Detail as to who actually got WCs may not be his thing ( isn't he on the WC committee?! ) and mate, don't even mention Billy ( helped the qualifying stats putting him in there, not sure it helped his MD prep ).

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 1st of July 2026 10:15:31 AM

christ · Challenger qualifying

The clue is in the lede for me: "For many, Wimbledon is the highlight of a British sporting summer, with those flocking to SW19 - or following elsewhere - desperate to cheer home players to victory." This has nothing really to do with the "health" of the game in the UK, and everything to do with the passing fad amongst the general population that is "Wimbledon fortnight".

The draw determined that "seventeen of the 19 home players faced opponents ranked inside the world's top 55, with only Cameron Norrie - a semi-finalist here in 2022 - ranked higher than his first-round opponent." So according to ranking getting four through outperformed (what should have been) the expectation.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

christ wrote:
The clue is in the lede for me: "For many, Wimbledon is the highlight of a British sporting summer, with those flocking to SW19 - or following elsewhere - desperate to cheer home players to victory." This has nothing really to do with the "health" of the game in the UK, and everything to do with the passing fad amongst the general population that is "Wimbledon fortnight".

The draw determined that "seventeen of the 19 home players faced opponents ranked inside the world's top 55, with only Cameron Norrie - a semi-finalist here in 2022 - ranked higher than his first-round opponent." So according to ranking getting four through outperformed (what should have been) the expectation.

Well, Katie Boulter was a lot higher ranked than her first-round opponent

So that's not completely right

But I agree with the point - only two losses were 'disappointing'

More interesting, to me, is that, of the four who won, three of them are not really a product of the LTA at all anyway

Jan is 'Made in Germany'

Arthur Féry's parents organised and ran his tennis training largely independently of the LTA

Katie Swan was an LTA girl but then moved to Texas (at 16?) and was/is based there for all her tennis

Only Jake is an LTA product, and even that I'm not too sure about (as in where on the support list he came)

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
christ wrote:
The clue is in the lede for me: "For many, Wimbledon is the highlight of a British sporting summer, with those flocking to SW19 - or following elsewhere - desperate to cheer home players to victory." This has nothing really to do with the "health" of the game in the UK, and everything to do with the passing fad amongst the general population that is "Wimbledon fortnight".

The draw determined that "seventeen of the 19 home players faced opponents ranked inside the world's top 55, with only Cameron Norrie - a semi-finalist here in 2022 - ranked higher than his first-round opponent." So according to ranking getting four through outperformed (what should have been) the expectation.
Well, Katie Boulter was a lot higher ranked than her first-round opponent
So that's not completely right
But I agree with the point - only two losses were 'disappointing'

More interesting, to me, is that, of the four who won, three of them are not really a product of the LTA at all anyway
Jan is 'Made in Germany'
Arthur Féry's parents organised and ran his tennis training largely independently of the LTA
Katie Swan was an LTA girl but then moved to Texas (at 16?) and was/is based there for all her tennis
Only Jake is an LTA product, and even that I'm not too sure about (as in where on the support list he came)

As I mentioned in the # of Wimbledon wins threads we only had 3 betting favourites ( Cam, Arthur and Katie B ) with Katie S a joint favourite, so sort of 3.5 betting favoutites.

That said, it was reasonable to hope for more wins against the odds with so many players, and if you added up all the ( adjusted for bookies margin ) win odds, our 'expected' number of singles R1 wins was about 7.

Clearly however all here will I imagine agree that the health of British tennis is about much more than Wimbledon, indeed about a heck of a lot more than one rather disappoiinting singles round at Wimbledon which even then had some mitigating circumstances such as withdrawals of top hopes and the draws. Still, in ( non reasobable ) isolation a reasonable expectation was for a few more than 4 wins.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 1st of July 2026 11:57:06 AM

JonH · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
christ wrote:
The clue is in the lede for me: "For many, Wimbledon is the highlight of a British sporting summer, with those flocking to SW19 - or following elsewhere - desperate to cheer home players to victory." This has nothing really to do with the "health" of the game in the UK, and everything to do with the passing fad amongst the general population that is "Wimbledon fortnight".

The draw determined that "seventeen of the 19 home players faced opponents ranked inside the world's top 55, with only Cameron Norrie - a semi-finalist here in 2022 - ranked higher than his first-round opponent." So according to ranking getting four through outperformed (what should have been) the expectation.
Well, Katie Boulter was a lot higher ranked than her first-round opponent
So that's not completely right
But I agree with the point - only two losses were 'disappointing'

More interesting, to me, is that, of the four who won, three of them are not really a product of the LTA at all anyway
Jan is 'Made in Germany'
Arthur Féry's parents organised and ran his tennis training largely independently of the LTA
Katie Swan was an LTA girl but then moved to Texas (at 16?) and was/is based there for all her tennis
Only Jake is an LTA product, and even that I'm not too sure about (as in where on the support list he came)
As I mentioned in the # of Wimbledon wins threads we only had 3 betting favourites ( Cam, Arthur and Katie B ) with Katie S a joint favourite, so sort of 3.5 betting favoutites.
That said, it was reasonable to hope for more wins against the odds with so many players, and if you added up all the ( adjusted for bookies margin ) win odds, our 'expected' number of singles R1 wins was about 7.

Whats our round 2 cumulative odds?

christ · Challenger qualifying

I think Katie Swan was based in Kansas.

christ · Challenger qualifying

Coup Droit wrote:
... More interesting, to me, is that, of the four who won, three of them are not really a product of the LTA at all anyway
Jan is 'Made in Germany'
Arthur Féry's parents organised and ran his tennis training largely independently of the LTA
Katie Swan was an LTA girl but then moved to Texas (at 16?) and was/is based there for all her tennis
Only Jake is an LTA product, and even that I'm not too sure about (as in where on the support list he came)

This has ever been the case: e.g. Mr Rusedski was an import, as was Ms Konta; the Murrays (and numerous other examples) went their own way, and American college sport has been the route to success for an awful lot of our latest players, even if the LTA had something to do with them as well.

Success is invariably claimed by the LTA, and failure is always due to factors beyond their control.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

christ wrote:
I think Katie Swan was based in Kansas.

Thanks, yes, my bad

(texas-kansas-tomaARto-tomAYto )

And, Indy, I don't think betting odds are relevant here - to me, if it's an LTA analysis, it's tennis rankings that count, end of

i.e. Arthur did better than expected because he beat a better ranked player

It KPMG were doing an analysis of LTA performance, they'd have to base it off rankings, and not off what people on Bet365 think - and that's right, I think

(It doesn't change a huge big deal but.....)

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
christ wrote:
I think Katie Swan was based in Kansas.
Thanks, yes, my bad
(texas-kansas-tomaARto-tomAYto )
And, Indy, I don't think betting odds are relevant here - to me, if it's an LTA analysis, it's tennis rankings that count, end of
i.e. Arthur did better than expected because he beat a better ranked player
It KPMG were doing an analysis of LTA performance, they'd have to base it off rankings, and not off what people on Bet365 think - and that's right, I think
(It doesn't change a huge big deal but.....)

To my mind, the same basically applies re rankings ( and there is a linkage ). With so many players it was reasonable to expect more Brits to beat their higher ranked opponrnts.

In the big picture yes, I don't think one Wimbledon round is any major concern, but also yes, I consider 4 wins to be disappointing. And I think it is difficult to argue otherwise.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
christ wrote:
I think Katie Swan was based in Kansas.
Thanks, yes, my bad
(texas-kansas-tomaARto-tomAYto )
And, Indy, I don't think betting odds are relevant here - to me, if it's an LTA analysis, it's tennis rankings that count, end of
i.e. Arthur did better than expected because he beat a better ranked player
It KPMG were doing an analysis of LTA performance, they'd have to base it off rankings, and not off what people on Bet365 think - and that's right, I think
(It doesn't change a huge big deal but.....)
To my mind, the same basically applies re rankings ( and there is a linkage ). With so many players it was reasonable to expect more Brits to beat their higher ranked opponrnts.
In the big picture yes, I don't think one Wimbledon round is any major concern, but also yes, I consider 4 wins to be disappointing. And I think it is difficult to argue otherwise.

Oh, it's definitely disappointing, that's for sure cry cry cry

And, yes, rankings are only indicative i.e. if you're ranked 100 you will, of course, beat higher-ranked players and lose to lower-ranked players

But what I mean is, the glaring obvious failure that can be laid at the LTA's door is not to have more players ranked inside the top-100

christ · Challenger qualifying

According to the Beeb "... in 2010. Only eight British players had earned a spot in round one, but by the time round two began, only Andy Murray remained in the competition."

According to me, 19 Brits in the opening round is a much better showing than eight, and we have four times as many through to round two.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

christ wrote:
According to the Beeb "... in 2010. Only eight British players had earned a spot in round one, but by the time round two began, only Andy Murray remained in the competition."

According to me, 19 Brits in the opening round is a much better showing than eight, and we have four times as many through to round two.

But almost certainly no Andy smile cry

It's one of the problems of the sport being so figurehead focused (if that's a phrase)

If we'd had the same 4 go through AND Emma, say, the press would be delighted - they'd all be focused on Emma because she would be a second week contender

A guy at the French federation once said that they would willingly trade all 15 top-100 male players just to have one guy who won a Grand Slam

Personally, I prefer the depth (as you mention) - so much more to follow

But I understand how many look at it