British Tennis Forum - Celebrating 20 Years!

paulisi wrote:

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Jodie, Heather, Harriet and Lily are ranked lower than their ability due to injury.

Watch out in a few years time once the batch of US college students finish - Ella, Allegra, Brooke, Savannah etc
Plus the likes of Sofia Johnson who is climbing the rankings in the US.

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 I don't think that's going to reassure Indy much 

Heather is 33, Lily is 30. Harriet was never consistently that much higher than she is now. And Jodie still says her shoulder pops if she unleashes a top serve.

And even if their injures all miraculously get better, you'd then have to factor in that others will get injured instead. (And, of couse, Fran and Katie Swan have dodgy CVs in the first place)

And the US college ones are no different from any other year - i.e. a couple may well come forward (having watched Sofia Johnson's match today, I wouldn't hold my breath of her getting anywhere near where Indy is talking although she plays nicely and could well be top-500/top-400) 

But we'll have a couple, like we have most years. Maybe a couple of the list you mention. Ella way more than Allegra . Or maybe a surprise renaissance from someone like Eva Shaw.

But, again, it'll be a couple at most. 

We've had tons of girls going that way for well over ten years and history shows that most of the players don't go on to be top-200 players. Not even of the best lot. So there's no reason to think it'll be any different. Could be better. Could be worse. But let's go with the average. 

We haven't even had any nationality switches recently. Which can be a much-needed boost. And has helped up in the past.  

So, yes, it seems like the LTA are very much depending on Mimi/Mika/Hannah with Marni and Ranah etc maybe fading in their eyes (as they go past the normal funding age). 

And, yes, Indy, I think you're right to be a bit sceptical. Now, it's true, you only need a couple to do really well, and we quickly forgive lack of depth. But ......

Coup Droit wrote:

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paulisi wrote:

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Jodie, Heather, Harriet and Lily are ranked lower than their ability due to injury.

Watch out in a few years time once the batch of US college students finish - Ella, Allegra, Brooke, Savannah etc
Plus the likes of Sofia Johnson who is climbing the rankings in the US.

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 I don't think that's going to reassure Indy much 

Heather is 33, Lily is 30. Harriet was never consistently that much higher than she is now. And Jodie still says her shoulder pops if she unleashes a top serve.

And even if their injures all miraculously get better, you'd then have to factor in that others will get injured instead. (And, of couse, Fran and Katie Swan have dodgy CVs in the first place)

And the US college ones are no different from any other year - i.e. a couple may well come forward (having watched Sofia Johnson's match today, I wouldn't hold my breath of her getting anywhere near where Indy is talking although she plays nicely and could well be top-500/top-400) 

But we'll have a couple, like we have most years. Maybe a couple of the list you mention. Ella way more than Allegra . Or maybe a surprise renaissance from someone like Eva Shaw.

But, again, it'll be a couple at most. 

We've had tons of girls going that way for well over ten years and history shows that most of the players don't go on to be top-200 players. Not even of the best lot. So there's no reason to think it'll be any different. Could be better. Could be worse. But let's go with the average. 

We haven't even had any nationality switches recently. Which can be a much-needed boost. And has helped up in the past.  

So, yes, it seems like the LTA are very much depending on Mimi/Mika/Hannah with Marni and Ranah etc maybe fading in their eyes (as they go past the normal funding age). 

And, yes, Indy, I think you're right to be a bit sceptical. Now, it's true, you only need a couple to do really well, and we quickly forgive lack of depth. But ......

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 1st of April 2026 07:56:31 PM

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 As ever a well balanced and informed post.

I do think we need to be concerned, though a lot of of concern could be alleviated by the Mimi/Mika/Hannah triumvirate. But there is a lot of pressure on these three young women to succeed and this is not guaranteed. Of course judging against the very best teenagers isn't really fair but let's be honest, right now, our best teenagers are light years away from the top level. I'm not saying they won't make it but there is a long way to go.

I don't think the top of our women's game is especially healthy either. We have a No.1 who right now can't stay fit or well for any length of time, looks pretty disillusioned sometimes when she's on court and has been on the end of some pretty hefty defeats, although against top players. She's not had much luck really with injuries and illness and this can be pretty tough to deal with added to the constant press speculation/intrusion whatever you want to call it.  She's obviously a very good player but I wonder if her heart is truly in it right now.

Sonay is our most consistent player.  With Fran you never know. She was close to quitting the sport apparently and much will depend upon her staying both fit and healthy.

Of the others Both Katie B and Harriet are 29 and a half. Katie, of course gets married later this year so who knows what her medium plans are for the sport, but the hiring of a new coach is a positive sign and she seems to have responded well. Harriet has been in woeful form since the deodorant issue and has also been injured.

Of course they are not old and pro tennis players can compete into their thirties now but a close look at the top end of the game quickly reveals that over the age of 33 numbers decline quite quickly. With some notable exceptions. The peak decade seems to be between 23 and 32. if you are a 26/27 year old playing but ranked say in the 600s or lower then the chances of getting to the top 100 say are pretty slim.

Then we have a number of players who, for whatever reasons, seem to be marooned in the 450 sort of ranking range and players are turning more and more to doubles to help pay the bills. And nothing wrong with that of course.

I'm also not convinced re the US college system producing much success. Yes there are examples where this has worked and they do get to play competitive matches but I'm sure we've had a few returnees from colleges who, though they have done ok at lower levels, have not really made an impression.

It is  positive that we have a great many women with a ranking, perhaps more than ever, but, I'm not seeing a massive potential for many to make it to the top 100/200 say.  Of course, as CD correctly says, a few successes can paper over the cracks. However, we have an aging and sometimes injured/unwell core of senior players who are either past their best or coming to a stage in their career where they should be at their best but fitness issues interfere. Whether the young hopefuls can take their places remains to be seen. Let's hope so.

paulisi wrote:

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I actually think you are comparing the women to the men and the men are significantly overachieving, whereas the women are slightly under performing.
The reason for the men was that it is hard to breakthrough as an 18 yr old into the mens game and the US College route was an obvious move and the depth of talent helped development.
The best girls never went to US College as the better players turned pro before uni. The womens levels in US College was traditionally poor, but more top players are starting to take this option and the standard is improving
I'm not too worried about the ladies.We have a good group of juniors at each age group which will repkace the ageing crop like Heather, Lily, Katie, Harriet and Katy

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 But do we? 

Who do we have in 2004 ? And 2006 ? And 2007? 

I mean, yes, of course there are a few names but there's not a 'good group' 

Deleted - new post added.

-- Edited by Pierrot on Sunday 5th of April 2026 04:08:49 PM

GAMEOVER wrote:

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Does all this development or otherwise take into account who the coach is. I am thinking of Mika in particular .

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 This is a good question and I'd extend it further than just the main coach. What about the fitness/nutrition and diet/mental approach etc etc. How geared up are we really in helping our best players progress? 

I also don't think we are helped by basically only having one top level tournament, Nottingham, outside of London and the South East. Our grass court season, outside of Wimbledon obviously, is in danger of being usurped by Germany. Our players, with one or two exceptions, are basically allergic to clay. Why is that?  

On September 6th 2024 Mika defeated Iva Jovic at the US Open. Ok so let's allow for the fact that Jovic is almost exactly 1 year older, let's allow for the fact that Jovic is obviously an exceptional talent etc etc. But 18 months down the line Jovic is ranked inside the top 20 whilst Mika is somewhere around 275. So the question for me is where in 12 months time do we think Mika will be ranked?  

Tereza Valentova is another example. Obviously another special talent and within a few months of being 18 had won two WTA125s according to Wikipedia.  

It is players like this that need to be the benchmark for our juniors and I wonder if we can learn anything from the training regimes etc they use.

Our depth will be tested in the BJK cup. Let's see how it stands up to a decent test from Australia.

HarryGem wrote:

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GAMEOVER wrote:

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Does all this development or otherwise take into account who the coach is. I am thinking of Mika in particular .

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 This is a good question and I'd extend it further than just the main coach. What about the fitness/nutrition and diet/mental approach etc etc. How geared up are we really in helping our best players progress? 

I also don't think we are helped by basically only having one top level tournament, Nottingham, outside of London and the South East. Our grass court season, outside of Wimbledon obviously, is in danger of being usurped by Germany. Our players, with one or two exceptions, are basically allergic to clay. Why is that?  

On September 6th 2024 Mika defeated Iva Jovic at the US Open. Ok so let's allow for the fact that Jovic is almost exactly 1 year older, let's allow for the fact that Jovic is obviously an exceptional talent etc etc. But 18 months down the line Jovic is ranked inside the top 20 whilst Mika is somewhere around 275. So the question for me is where in 12 months time do we think Mika will be ranked?  

Tereza Valentova is another example. Obviously another special talent and within a few months of being 18 had won two WTA125s according to Wikipedia.  

It is players like this that need to be the benchmark for our juniors and I wonder if we can learn anything from the training regimes etc they use.

 

Our depth will be tested in the BJK cup. Let's see how it stands up to a decent test from Australia.

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 I think the fact that Iva is  a year older than Mika should have given  Iva  the advantage in the 2024  US Open juniors but at the time that was not the case.At the moment there is a huge gulf in rankings. I'm not sure what happened to Matilda Mutavdzic  as she has not played since early 2024 but she is another example of when she was 17 beating another then 17 year old who is now in the top 20 and that is Linda Noskova. That was in a 25 k. tournament  in October 2021. However on the other hand we should not write players off as the first 7 years of Jo Konta's  pro career bore no resemblance to her later career. I think the right coaching set up came into this.