The Telegraph is reporting that there's a 90-day now-or-never offer from SA to 'buy' tennis and merge mens and womens

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Saudi Arabia - $1 bn offer - merger of WTA & ATP

Andy Parker · Strong Club Player

The Times is reporting much more than simply a merger.

The ideas that seem to be behind it are to have each season the top 64 players with entry guaranteed to play 10 major designated events plus the 4 Grand Slams - promotion and relegation from these events would then happen at the end of the season - a bit like promotion and relegation from football's premier league.

The difference obviously is that those 64 players would have full access to the season's top events, no matter how they were performing and conversely no-one outside the top 64 in January would have that access, even if they were performing brilliantly all season.

There would also be a separate tour below that for lesser players, with some kind of promotion and relegation from that built in, a kind of lower league with the same structure mirroring the Premier league for the elite players.

Those 10 events plus the 4 Grand Slams would form the rankings of the top players. Bet there's a Saudi event in there!!

Such moves would be massive obviously and I have a feeling that it would make movement up and down the tennis rankings far harder to achieve, but would perhaps be more meritocratic, if say every player outside of the top 64 were to have to play the same tournaments.

My gut instinct though is that this will not happen - too many fiefdoms will be protected by different groups and I just can't see such radical proposals on the ranking system being accepted. Anyway I read the article in the Times today (Wednesday) with great interest and it certainly links to what Coup has posted.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 14th of March 2024 01:55:04 AM

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 14th of March 2024 01:57:02 AM

Lambda · Futures level

I've not seen the Times report, but what you describe Andy sounds more like Craig Tiley's Premium Tour proposal.

The Saudi offer as I understand it from all the reports I've read is more of an investment in the sport and in return they get a season opening 1000 and a year end combined Finals event in Saudi. According to The Athletic most of the money goes towards purchasing a license for their events, but some of the money will go towards a senior tour, increasing prize money and providing support to lower level tournaments.

If what you say the Times is reporting is the Saudi offer, then that would be an interesting development and it would seem then that there are two competing proposals that are broadly the same.

For what it's worth, the Guardian report that the Saudis deny making a time limited offer, that discussions are ongoing, that they have no intention of disrupting the sport and that they want to be "part of the existing eco-system" of the sport, whatever that means.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

This explains the two deals reasonably well

www.sportspromedia.com/news/atp-wta-tours-tennis-merger-offer-saudi-arabia-pif/

Saudi offer is to combine ATP and WTA as Lambda says, with a 1000 event in January and joint year end finals, the 4 slams arent included in the financial offer

Premium Tour is a proposal from the Slams to take over tennis and have 10 1000 level events and 4 slams as per detailed description above.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

www.sportspromedia.com/news/aeltc-support-tennis-elite-circuit-plans-grand-slams-equal-pay/

This is the Premium Tour offer- the 10 masters events would be 96 player events (not 64 unless that is refined) and from the traditional 9 mens masters events, Doha would be added, and Beijing would take over the Shanghai event; and a grass 1000 would be added; Paris indoor would be dropped making 10 in total. The grass was is unnamed at the time of the article and could explain Queens trying to include a womens event - personally, doubt Queens would be big enough?

From what I can see, the Premium Tour proposal creates the elite league and splits the game between elite level and what would effectively become feeder levels below - probably more radical.

The PIF Saudi offer gives them the 1000 they crave and year end finals, and is probably less radical in fact, but would mean the WTA Finals going to Saudi as part of the joint tour finals - and that would be controversial.

I dont know if it is a direct one or the other of these two proposals, the Saudi offer on the face of it appears less radical - maybe theyve learnt from LIV in golf?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

This is the Telegraph's report which addresses Tiley's Premium Tour suggestion last summer, and also highlighted the problems of all the 'big egos', which is preventing anything really getting past the starting blocks

www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/tennis/tennis-is-on-the-brink-of-civil-war-and-saudi-arabia-takeover-will-define-its-future/ar-BB1jNORL

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Thanks CD - at one level, its Tiley v Gaudenzi for the future of tennis, with the WTA and tournaments required to pick a side.

brittak · Pro player

I dont know but I feel so depressed reading all of this.

I quite like the structure of tennis as it is. Sure it could probably do with some tweaks and adjustments but this all feels too much.

Sorry if I am a dinosaur - I prefer evolution than huge changes being made essentially just for money.

Blue_Belle · Strong Club Player

brittak wrote:
I dont know but I feel so depressed reading all of this.

I quite like the structure of tennis as it is. Sure it could probably do with some tweaks and adjustments but this all feels too much.

Sorry if I am a dinosaur - I prefer evolution than huge changes being made essentially just for money.

Same, same.

Nix · Futures qualifying

brittak wrote:
I dont know but I feel so depressed reading all of this.

I quite like the structure of tennis as it is. Sure it could probably do with some tweaks and adjustments but this all feels too much.

Sorry if I am a dinosaur - I prefer evolution than huge changes being made essentially just for money.

Me too!

Plus I hate countries, any countries, owning sport. It just takes it away from the fans that actually attend the events and makes it all about corporate hospitality and TV.

GAMEOVER · Pro player

Simon Briggs has been covering it each day in the Telegraph but perhaps it is because of Mike Dickson's passing but the Daily Mail has had no coverage at all. Prefers Rugby, Football and racing at Cheltenham.

GAMEOVER · Pro player

Andy Parker wrote:
The Times is reporting much more than simply a merger.

The ideas that seem to be behind it are to have each season the top 64 players with entry guaranteed to play 10 major designated events plus the 4 Grand Slams - promotion and relegation from these events would then happen at the end of the season - a bit like promotion and relegation from football's premier league.
The difference obviously is that those 64 players would have full access to the season's top events, no matter how they were performing and conversely no-one outside the top 64 in January would have that access, even if they were performing brilliantly all season.

There would also be a separate tour below that for lesser players, with some kind of promotion and relegation from that built in, a kind of lower league with the same structure mirroring the Premier league for the elite players.

Those 10 events plus the 4 Grand Slams would form the rankings of the top players. Bet there's a Saudi event in there!!

Such moves would be massive obviously and I have a feeling that it would make movement up and down the tennis rankings far harder to achieve, but would perhaps be more meritocratic, if say every player outside of the top 64 were to have to play the same tournaments.

My gut instinct though is that this will not happen - too many fiefdoms will be protected by different groups and I just can't see such radical proposals on the ranking system being accepted. Anyway I read the article in the Times today (Wednesday) with great interest and it certainly links to what Coup has posted.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 14th of March 2024 01:55:04 AM
Mentioning the top 64 players what happens if players start the season and are then ill or injured. How would this cater for returning players who have come back from having a baby? Football is a team sport whereas tennis is an individual sport.

-- Edited by Andy Parker on Thursday 14th of March 2024 01:57:02 AM

GAMEOVER · Pro player

A question over Saudi will gay players be going there? On a non playing level what about the likes of Billie Jean and Ilana and Martina and her wife?

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

GAMEOVER wrote:
A question over Saudi will gay players be going there? On a non playing level what about the likes of Billie Jean and Ilana and Martina and her wife?

I think among human rights related things, these are all part of the concern around Saudi Arabia. Personally, whatever we all think, money talks. That is what will hold sway - the genie is already out of the bottle with Saudi getting the football World Cup in 2030, with F1, boxing (mens and womens) and I think we will all grumble and shout foul, but the players and authorities will take the money and run.

Of course, both sides in this "war" have big money on the table, so it maybe it doesnt come down to money, after all, and other things hold sway. I think, personally, for the good of the game, in the long term, the idea of a Elite Tour will happen - TV will want it, the top players will want it, the fans will want it. Things like ranking systems and entry will work themselves out and some way of allowing good, young players to progress quickly into the elite group will be found.

But whether it is the Premium Tour of Craig Tiley and the Slams or some other format, it is clear that is the way the sport is going to go.

GAMEOVER · Pro player

JonH comes home wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
A question over Saudi will gay players be going there? On a non playing level what about the likes of Billie Jean and Ilana and Martina and her wife?
I think among human rights related things, these are all part of the concern around Saudi Arabia. Personally, whatever we all think, money talks. That is what will hold sway - the genie is already out of the bottle with Saudi getting the football World Cup in 2030, with F1, boxing (mens and womens) and I think we will all grumble and shout foul, but the players and authorities will take the money and run.
Of course, both sides in this "war" have big money on the table, so it maybe it doesnt come down to money, after all, and other things hold sway. I think, personally, for the good of the game, in the long term, the idea of a Elite Tour will happen - TV will want it, the top players will want it, the fans will want it. Things like ranking systems and entry will work themselves out and some way of allowing good, young players to progress quickly into the elite group will be found.

But whether it is the Premium Tour of Craig Tiley and the Slams or some other format, it is clear that is the way the sport is going to go.

Jon , The Football World Cup in Saudi Arabia is 2034 not 2030 so ten years off. Re an elite 64 or 96 how would they have dealt with Emma's ranking of 150 when she won the 2021 US Open?

The Telegraph is reporting that there's a 90-day now-or-never offer from SA to 'buy' tennis and merge mens and womens

Saudi Arabia launches tennis takeover with $1 billion take-it-or-leave-it offer