ATP Ranking Points Changes

seagull · Hall of fame

ATP Ranking Points Changes

seagull · Hall of fame

Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Thanks, seagull - really useful - have just copied and pasted and saved - I'll obviously lose it and forget later in the year - but at least I've made an effort

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?

Not just Challenger points have gone down but ATP 250 have gone up.

2023

ATP 250: 250 150 90 45 20

CH 175: 175 100 60 32 15

CH 75: 75 50 30 16 7

2024

ATP 250: 250 165 100 50 25

CH 175: 175 90 50 25 13

CH 75: 75 44 22 12 6

A challenger semi final at CH75 level which I think is the most common Challenger tournament is now worth less than an M25 title. Seems a bit mad.

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

Jose Morgado on Twitter has some good tables showing the differences.

x.com/josemorgado/status/1739834986419695834

dodrade · Futures qualifying

seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?

It does feel as if Tennis is becoming a semi-closed shop.

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

dodrade wrote:
seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?
It does feel as if Tennis is becoming a semi-closed shop.

ive read that part of the idea is to try and get stronger qualifying draws at 250/500 level. I guess stronger draws will allow tournaments to try and sell tickets to those days. Im sure Queens will still decide to to not allow public in though.

Shhh · Challenger level

Madadman wrote:
dodrade wrote:
seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?
It does feel as if Tennis is becoming a semi-closed shop.
ive read that part of the idea is to try and get stronger qualifying draws at 250/500 level. I guess stronger draws will allow tournaments to try and sell tickets to those days. Im sure Queens will still decide to to not allow public in though.

Health and Safety dont you know!

KK · Club Coach

Shhh wrote:
Madadman wrote:
dodrade wrote:
seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?
It does feel as if Tennis is becoming a semi-closed shop.
ive read that part of the idea is to try and get stronger qualifying draws at 250/500 level. I guess stronger draws will allow tournaments to try and sell tickets to those days. Im sure Queens will still decide to to not allow public in though.
Health and Safety dont you know!

But as I discovered this year, all to do with the LTA which runs it and nothing to do with the members who are not able to play there for 3 weeks in total because all the stands take such a long time to put up and take down - so many hospitality stands and a huge money spiner for the LTA.

9vicman · Satellite level

Madadman wrote:
seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?
Not just Challenger points have gone down but ATP 250 have gone up.
2023
ATP 250: 250 150 90 45 20
CH 175: 175 100 60 32 15
CH 75: 75 50 30 16 7

2024
ATP 250: 250 165 100 50 25
CH 175: 175 90 50 25 13
CH 75: 75 44 22 12 6

A challenger semi final at CH75 level which I think is the most common Challenger tournament is now worth less than an M25 title. Seems a bit mad.

It looks like the ATP and WTA have adopted a similar approach in reducing points at the middle (Challenger/ITF) tier presumably to disincentivise top players from playing down and strengthen events at the highest level. In the WTA's case, they've also reduced points at 250 level. Will be interesting to see how it affects player schedules and the speed at which rankings change. Suspect they have done a lot of modeling but instinctively I think it will be tougher to break through.

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

Ive just read the press release again.. And confusingly ive just noticed the point increases for ATP events and decreases for Challengers is for Singles only and not doubles who still get last years points. Very annoying that the two are not in sync.

-- Edited by Madadman on Tuesday 9th of January 2024 09:54:52 AM

wolf · Tennis legend

Madadman wrote:
Ive just read the press release again.. And confusingly ive just noticed the point increases for ATP events and decreases for Challengers is for Singles only and not doubles who still get last years points. Very annoying that the two are not in sync.

-- Edited by Madadman on Tuesday 9th of January 2024 09:54:52 AM

Surely its a good thing that doubles havent decreased? It is already hard enough to move up. For me, good to see someone using their brain. I actually hate that they always lazily use the same points system for both.

adz1983 · Intermediate Club Player

9vicman wrote:
Madadman wrote:
seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?
Not just Challenger points have gone down but ATP 250 have gone up.
2023
ATP 250: 250 150 90 45 20
CH 175: 175 100 60 32 15
CH 75: 75 50 30 16 7

2024
ATP 250: 250 165 100 50 25
CH 175: 175 90 50 25 13
CH 75: 75 44 22 12 6

A challenger semi final at CH75 level which I think is the most common Challenger tournament is now worth less than an M25 title. Seems a bit mad.
It looks like the ATP and WTA have adopted a similar approach in reducing points at the middle (Challenger/ITF) tier presumably to disincentivise top players from playing down and strengthen events at the highest level. In the WTA's case, they've also reduced points at 250 level. Will be interesting to see how it affects player schedules and the speed at which rankings change. Suspect they have done a lot of modeling but instinctively I think it will be tougher to break through.

Seems like WTA and ATP are teaming up a lot at the moment. There were jointly drafted comms from the United Cup, points are being harmonised and now they've just issued joint statement on late night matches with further work on standardising balls to come. Wonder if this is the year the two tours merge...

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

adz1983 wrote:
9vicman wrote:
Madadman wrote:
seagull wrote:
Although challenger points seem to be going down. Even harder to break the Top 100?
Not just Challenger points have gone down but ATP 250 have gone up.
2023
ATP 250: 250 150 90 45 20
CH 175: 175 100 60 32 15
CH 75: 75 50 30 16 7

2024
ATP 250: 250 165 100 50 25
CH 175: 175 90 50 25 13
CH 75: 75 44 22 12 6

A challenger semi final at CH75 level which I think is the most common Challenger tournament is now worth less than an M25 title. Seems a bit mad.
It looks like the ATP and WTA have adopted a similar approach in reducing points at the middle (Challenger/ITF) tier presumably to disincentivise top players from playing down and strengthen events at the highest level. In the WTA's case, they've also reduced points at 250 level. Will be interesting to see how it affects player schedules and the speed at which rankings change. Suspect they have done a lot of modeling but instinctively I think it will be tougher to break through.
Seems like WTA and ATP are teaming up a lot at the moment. There were jointly drafted comms from the United Cup, points are being harmonised and now they've just issued joint statement on late night matches with further work on standardising balls to come. Wonder if this is the year the two tours merge...

Yep, WTA wont survive otherwise and the ATP want the big mixed 1000 level events as their centrepiece going forwards. And to do that you need the wider tour and play up events.

Madadman · Masters Series Champion

wolf wrote:
Madadman wrote:
Ive just read the press release again.. And confusingly ive just noticed the point increases for ATP events and decreases for Challengers is for Singles only and not doubles who still get last years points. Very annoying that the two are not in sync.

-- Edited by Madadman on Tuesday 9th of January 2024 09:54:52 AM
Surely its a good thing that doubles havent decreased? It is already hard enough to move up. For me, good to see someone using their brain. I actually hate that they always lazily use the same points system for both.

Totally agree that it is a good thing that doubles hasnt decreased, as you say its hard to break through. You could call it lazy to just use the same points but I think it simplifies it and makes it easier to follow. Anyway it is what it is! Im sure the ATP will have another tinker in a few years.