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Link Back -> Andrew Murray message board -> General tennis discussion -> Wheelchair tennis and PoM/PoS - have your say
Post Info TOPIC: Wheelchair tennis and PoM/PoS - have your say
Vote from the list below [11 vote(s)]

Yes - keep it 3 players as is
81.8%
Yes, but - reduce it to just 1 top player
9.1%
No - we shouldnt include wheelchair tennis at all
9.1%
JonH comes home


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Wheelchair tennis and PoM/PoS - have your say
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I wanted to discuss this topic with the board. Many will know I am a big supporter of wheelchair tennis and follow it quite closely.

I am aware though that isnt the case with all people on the board, for a variety of good reasons.

At the moment, for Player of the Season, we treat wheelchair tennis as just another discipline in tennis - like singles, doubles, juniors, we have wheelchair. Quad wheelchair is theoretically a mixed discipline but is actually just men and is for more severely disabled players. So, in GB terms, Alfie Hewett and Gordon Reid are our mens top players, Lucy Shuker in womens, and Andy Lapthorne in quad 

This means that I have to date allowed the highest ranked British players in each of mens, womens and quad wheelchair disciplines to qualify for the PoS finals and they are treated equally in terms of PoM, where any player can be nominated. So wheelchair players this year took up 3 of the 28 PoS places.

I am aware many people may not agree this is the right way to do it and thus wanted to ask the question via a vote, before next season begins in anger.

The three options to be voted on are:

1) Yes - we should continue to treat wheelchair tennis as we do now; it is fair to do so and the sport deserves the profile of the top man, woman and quad player getting into Player of the season. So, keep it as 3. 

It is now 9.40 Thursday am, so the vote will close automatically at 9.40 next Thursday 21st December.

2) Yes, but - 3 out of 28 is a lot, and the depth in the wheelchair game doesnt justify so many places. We should still allow wheelchair to be nominated into player of the month, but for Player of the season, we should just include 1 (ie the highest ranked across all 3 elements) player in the Player of the Season direct qualifiers from the rankings. So reduce it to 1

3) No - wheelchair tennis is a completely different sport and we should include it; it could or should be treated differently and have its own recognition but not as part of mainstream tennis. We should not include wheelchair players in either Player of the Month or Player of the Season consideration

 

I am going to pose these as three options to vote on and will leave it for a week to see what people think. Please also comment with your thoughts although I realise people may not wish to do that.

I will go with the wishes of the board as per the option with the highest vote    

 



-- Edited by JonH comes home on Thursday 14th of December 2023 05:21:53 PM

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Bob in Spain


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My opinion is just leave it as it is - i.e. Option 1. Different people have different interests even if we don't consider Wheelchair tennis. Some follow the men only, some the women and some both. The same is true of the junior side of things - namely some are interested and others are not.

So I think that if those who are interested in Wheelchair tennis want to nominate those players, then they should be allowed to do so. Those that have less interest will probably place their votes elsewhere but isn't that what these votes are all about ?

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JonH comes home


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Thanks Bob, appreciate the input. Lets see what others think. I wont put up my views until later as I want to see what others think and not sway either way.

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9vicman


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I agree essentially leaving it as it is. Wheelchair tennis is now incorporated into the mainstream of the sport, with the principle focus the Slams and in 2024 the Paralympics, and it feels like it would be a backwards step to segregate.

Can I suggest that we don't specify one man, one woman and one quad. Britain currently doesn't have a woman challenging for the top honours, and Gordon Reid and Alfie Hewett could potentially both be gold medallists.

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Shhh


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I dont really agree with any quotas Jon. If they are the best player, then they are the best player, regardless of male or female, singles or doubles, able bodied or disabled.

That said though I dont actually get involved with all the polls and POS but I like to have my say anyway    



-- Edited by Shhh on Thursday 14th of December 2023 10:56:03 AM

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 Its really not as bad as they say :)
Tanaqui


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I'm for leaving it as it is as well. As has been said, Wheelchair Tennis is just as valid as any other discipline and deserves equal respect.

I also checked on what happened with the other two players who got through to the PoS voting list purely "ex officio", as it were. Katy Dunne (most 3rd/4th PoM places) didn't get any votes in the first round of PoS. Maia (#1 in Women's Doubles) got through the first round but didn't get any votes in the semi-finals. Did they deserve to be in the PoS final selection any more or less than Alfie, Lucy or Andy, or needed removing from PoS to be recognised in another way?

I think the answer is no, especially as the fact the Wheelchair Tennis players were in PoS made me much more aware of their successes. If you'd separated them out and done something only for them, I'll admit I probably wouldn't have read it.



-- Edited by Tanaqui on Thursday 14th of December 2023 11:05:56 AM



-- Edited by Tanaqui on Thursday 14th of December 2023 11:06:15 AM

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JonH comes home


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All good points and thanks - and as people know, Im sure, Id leave it as is, I just had this thought that others may feel I was imposing wheelchair tennis on them, so to speak.

Re one of the comments above, re quotas. The reality would be there are no actual quotas as anyone can get through player of the month or win a slam, and qualify , as per the new rules structure. It was the rankings places I was most concerned with - we have mens singles , womens singles, mens doubles, womens doubles, junior boys and junior girls. Alongside that we have mens wheelchair, womens wheelchair and quad wheelchair. So it was those 3 places versus 4 mens and womens and 2 juniors I was questioning - and was that too many?

Anyway it seems early comments are largely aligned, which is great. Thanks

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JonH comes home


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Shhh wrote:

I dont really agree with any quotas Jon. If they are the best player, then they are the best player, regardless of male or female, singles or doubles, able bodied or disabled.

That said though I dont actually get involved with all the polls and POS but I like to have my say anyway    



-- Edited by Shhh on Thursday 14th of December 2023 10:56:03 AM

  by the way, Shhh, your view is welcomed and it would be great if you did take part in the voting - youd be very welcome ! 



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JonH comes home


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For those who arent sure, the updated rules for qualifying for player of the season next year are:

Winner and RU from each PoM vote- so wheelchair players could get through that freely

The British number ones in each of mens/womens singles/doubles; junior boys/girls ; wheelchair mens/womens/quads - so it isnt a quota as such given the POM route is free to all

Any British slam winners in any of mens/womens/mixed singles or doubles, junior boys and girls singles and doubles, wheelchair mens/womens/ quad singles and doubles.


The most tournament wins and best 3rd/4th route are disbanded.

The impact of that is Alfie and Katy Dunne would have lost their route from the two disbanded routes, but Alfie qualified anyway as wheelchair mens number one.

And Neal, Joe, Henry Searle, Alfie, Andy Lapthorne ans Alfie / Gordon Reid won slams. Again all of those qualified through rankings or Pom votes with the exception of Alfie and Gordon as a pair. So in essence, the changes end up replacing Katy Dunne with Alfie/ Gordon as as a pair.

Just for info!

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JonH comes home


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It may be we dont need a vote here, the comments are all effectively the same. Ill leave it up anyway and its great to get the feedback.

I hope everyone doesnt think Im obsessed by Player of the Month / Season - I am! But I do have other interests in life, honest!

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Jan


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There will never be a "perfect" way to organise this!
I'd leave it as it is - it's a great way to catch up with aspects of the game I don't always follow closely smile



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JonH comes home


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Thanks Jan - it feels like we have a strong consensus; Ill leave this open to see if any alternative views come in, but think Im pretty clear we are on the right track!

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SuperT


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I thought Bob summed up my views perfectly in his comment above and I agree you should leave it as it is Jon. Everyone who made it to the POS vote this year deserved to be there, and as you say, people are free to vote for whoever they choose.

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JonH comes home


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I see someone has voted to reduce the numbers to 1 top player. Cool- be interested to get your thinking if youre willing to share? Dont have to , of course !

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Rich2310


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Keep it at 3. There really should be no discussion. Wheelchair players are no different to those using their legs. They still hold a racket and hit the ball. I have seen some very interesting wheelchair matches. Somebody else here already said that some only watch the men. Others only watch the women. Then there are people who like all of it. But we live in a world now where being disabled and using a wheelchair no longer means you have to fade into the background. When you see the achievements of someone like Alfie Hewitt then wheelchair tennis has to stay in the mix and not be given it's own separate section away from mainstream tennis. That's going against the whole idea of making disabled sports people still feel included.

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Rich2310
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