Week 45 – BJK Cup Playoffs – GB v Sweden – Copper Box, London – Indoor Hard

Var · Club Coach

RE: Week 45 – BJK Cup Playoffs – GB v Sweden – Copper Box, London – Indoor Hard

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

If Man City beat 4th division whoever, I don't think you just think, Oh, well done, Man City, no analysis needed, you won

The GB team was SO much better ranked than the Swedish team they fielded that winning, for me, is not the question.

GAMEOVER · Satellite level

Do rankings really matter at times? Canada won the cup with an 18 year old player Marina Stakusic who had not played a main WTA tour match in 2023. She won some of her singles matches which is more than the Wimbledon champion Vondrousova who lost all her matches. Are the Czechs going to sack their captain? Vondrousova is on a 5 match losing run at the moment.

Var · Club Coach

Coup Droit wrote:
If Man City beat 4th division whoever, I don't think you just think, Oh, well done, Man City, no analysis needed, you won

The GB team was SO much better ranked than the Swedish team they fielded that winning, for me, is not the question.

It is for me TBH. We know that in national competitions some players definitely bring their A game, like when we beat favourites and our team pulls out a great win against a top player. I hope there is the same level of critique when the men play the Davis Cup.

indiana · Tennis legend

Var wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
jb288 wrote:
Quite why people would expect Anne to be able to 'talk Jodie down' when her coaches of many years standing often can't do so in far less pressured situation is beyond me.
Easy. Because for the very most part, Jodue has never had a coach DURING the match. I agree that it's very difficult for coaches to help with nerves AFTER or BEFORE the event.
But during the match is completely different. That's where you can really hold someone's hand, so to speak, and help them with every changeover, really enforce what you've planned to do when things go a little wrong, basically carry them through. I've seen it on a lot of occasions in team tennis, at all levels, with players who are far worse than Jodie.
Did we win that rubber or have I missed something????

Did Jodie manage to turn her match around? Was she helped as much as she might have been on the occasion of such help being on hand?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

GAMEOVER wrote:
Do rankings really matter at times? Canada won the cup with an 18 year old player Marina Stakusic who had not played a main WTA tour match in 2023. She won some of her singles matches which is more than the Wimbledon champion Vondrousova who lost all her matches. Are the Czechs going to sack their captain? Vondrousova is on a 5 match losing run at the moment.

The Canadian forum is full of praise for the Canadian captain

I didn't follow it but supposedly her choices and approach were quite inspritational

Which is my point really

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I didnt see the matches but read the comments about Jodie falling apart and Annie not apparently helping her with her inputs, body language etc.

My three thoughts on reflection are:

1) for a side line Captain in a team event, there role is surely about a) inputting to selection of venue and surface - what will suit our team? b) selecting the team to play - based on form, fitness, surface considerations and head to heads etc with opposition. This may end up in your top players but there is some role here - going forwards, with Jodie imploding like she did, youd need to consider that in future selections against the other variables c) prep for the match itself - hotel, pre comms with players, when to meet up, keeping them occupied whilst with the squad with events, social stuff, d) training ahead of the match, routines and practices e) press conferences, maybe TV interviews etc f) and then onto the match - selecting the players for each day g) research and analysis of opponents - weaknesses, strengths h) thinking through tactics for each match up - how we going to approach this, what is our plan I) motivation of players beforehand, getting them in the right frame of mind for the match J) courtside - reinforcing tactics, rethinking them as match unfolds, motivating, chivvying, calming down, etc etc the player during the match.

So, it is a big job if done properly and needs someone who covers all these bases , ideally. Annie may well be the right person, dont know

2) Annie is no doubt sticking in the role - I see no sign or likelihood she will be sacked or resign; they won eventually, that maybe different if they lost, but they won and they move on I am sure

3) All of the list above needs analysis and review in some way before next seasons matches - when we know the draw and where and who we play. Did we get each of those things right (and maybe more I havent listed) and Annie clearly is central to that.

More importantly, when is the draw for the 2024 qualifiers (or whatever stage we are at)?

SuperT · Futures qualifying

It's been interesting following the discussions about Anne's role on here so I thought I'd have a look back at the match to see if I'd been unfair with my comments (it is raining here today and no live tennis to watch!!) There is indeed one change of ends where Anne is speaking quite animatedly to Jodie but every other change of ends seems to focus on the Swedish pair with hardly pictures of Anne and Jodie. That's definitely not how I remember it at the time and the stoney faces have disappeared . So did I really get it that wrong? I mean surely the BBC wouldn't go to the trouble of editing its pictures. Would they? Apologies if you think I'm going crazy, or that I'm creating conspiracy theories but I'm just feeling a bit bemused.

-- Edited by SuperT on Tuesday 14th of November 2023 12:23:50 PM

Peter too · Tennis legend

I did think that Persson was playing well above what one would expect from her ranking. She beat Jodie and she came within a couple of mm of taking the 2nd set off Katie. Katie was facing set point, her shot hit the net and only just trickled over. Katie had some combinations that beat her opponent every time. One was to pin her opponent into the backhand corner waiting for a slightly shorter ball. She then lined up her forehand for a power drive down the line but as her opponent moved to cover the shot, Katie instead played a short ball at an even wider angle down the backhand. Katie seems particularly good at those short, heavily angled shots.

telstar · Strong Club Player

GAMEOVER wrote:
Do rankings really matter at times? Canada won the cup with an 18 year old player Marina Stakusic who had not played a main WTA tour match in 2023. She won some of her singles matches which is more than the Wimbledon champion Vondrousova who lost all her matches. Are the Czechs going to sack their captain? Vondrousova is on a 5 match losing run at the moment.

For the second successive year the Czechs had by far the highest ranked players. They have failed to reached the final both years thanks largely due to a series of inexplicable selection decisions. If Pala isn't sacked he most certainly should be!

9vicman · Strong Club Player

telstar wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Do rankings really matter at times? Canada won the cup with an 18 year old player Marina Stakusic who had not played a main WTA tour match in 2023. She won some of her singles matches which is more than the Wimbledon champion Vondrousova who lost all her matches. Are the Czechs going to sack their captain? Vondrousova is on a 5 match losing run at the moment.
For the second successive year the Czechs had by far the highest ranked players. They have failed to reached the final both years thanks largely due to a series of inexplicable selection decisions. If Pala isn't sacked he most certainly should be!

Dont think Pala can be blamed for his selections in the Czechs semifinal defeat by Canada. Vondrousova at No. 1 singles, and Krejickova/Siniakova for doubles, were reasonable picks, but didnt play well enough against quality opposition. Last year he made an inspired selection (Vondrousova/Siniakova) to defeat USA in the group stage when Krejickova was injured, and only fell short against Switzerland in the semifinals. Think hes proved time and time again to be one of the best captains out there, and the top players always turn out for him.

I think Burrage was the right choice for GB, and was certainly playing well enough through 4-0 first set. GB needs to be careful not to consign Burrage to the bench based on one match, as her ceiling is probably higher than all but Boulter amongst the current leading players. She could have gained confidence with a win in the second singles, although Keothavong had an obligation to pick the player most likely to win a decisive singles.

Lambda · Futures level

In the updated rankings published today, we're down 1 to 15th. Moving above us are Slovenia up 4 to 14th and Romania up 5 to 12th. We move above Poland who are down 5 to 17th.

Canada move up 5 to be the top ranked country.

https://www.billiejeankingcup.com/en/ranking

Not sure when the draw for qualifiers is, but looking at the 2023 rulebook, it says it must take place within one week of the completion of the Finals/play-offs.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Lambda wrote:
In the updated rankings published today, we're down 1 to 15th. Moving above us are Slovenia up 4 to 14th and Romania up 5 to 12th. We move above Poland who are down 5 to 17th.

Canada move up 5 to be the top ranked country.

https://www.billiejeankingcup.com/en/ranking

Not sure when the draw for qualifiers is, but looking at the 2023 rulebook, it says it must take place within one week of the completion of the Finals/play-offs.

are Rankings taken into account in seeding the draw?

PaulM · Tennis legend

Yeah they are. Doesn't make a huge difference these updates as we wouldn't have been seeded either way. Which means a very difficult draw in pretty much every option.

-- Edited by PaulM on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 09:19:01 PM

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

9vicman wrote:
telstar wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Do rankings really matter at times? Canada won the cup with an 18 year old player Marina Stakusic who had not played a main WTA tour match in 2023. She won some of her singles matches which is more than the Wimbledon champion Vondrousova who lost all her matches. Are the Czechs going to sack their captain? Vondrousova is on a 5 match losing run at the moment.
For the second successive year the Czechs had by far the highest ranked players. They have failed to reached the final both years thanks largely due to a series of inexplicable selection decisions. If Pala isn't sacked he most certainly should be!
Dont think Pala can be blamed for his selections in the Czechs semifinal defeat by Canada. Vondrousova at No. 1 singles, and Krejickova/Siniakova for doubles, were reasonable picks, but didnt play well enough against quality opposition. Last year he made an inspired selection (Vondrousova/Siniakova) to defeat USA in the group stage when Krejickova was injured, and only fell short against Switzerland in the semifinals. Think hes proved time and time again to be one of the best captains out there, and the top players always turn out for him.
I think Burrage was the right choice for GB, and was certainly playing well enough through 4-0 first set. GB needs to be careful not to consign Burrage to the bench based on one match, as her ceiling is probably higher than all but Boulter amongst the current leading players. She could have gained confidence with a win in the second singles, although Keothavong had an obligation to pick the player most likely to win a decisive singles.

For better or for worse, and probably in the interests of simplicity, and transparency, the selection of players for the BJK Cup squads over the last several years seems to me to have been based on WTA ranking. This is especially so for the players picked to play singles. In the tie against Sweden, being one where it was a home venue, and where on ranking alone GB was favourite to prevail, this worked out well enabling Annie K to justify her singles picks, and give a new player valuable experience in the cauldron.

I have absolutely no problem with the team that was picked, and it was the right time and place to give Burrage the chance to show what she can do. Also it meant Dart would be fresh for the doubles, if it came to that, or as it turned out, fresh for the singles on Day 2.

As to which of the GB players might have the highest ceiling, I beg to differ. Annie K is on record having said all the players are equally matched (and that is when Raducanu was still playing, at the time of the BJK Cup match with Czechia). Readers of this board might not be surprised, but I'm going to remind folks that some of the best tennis this year was played by Swan, at Sydney in the United Cup for GB, and at Surbiton on the grass where she went toe to toe with Wickmayer in the final, and came within a few points of victory, prior to fading with exhaustion in a final set tiebreak. Just so everyone remembers, had Swan won that match she would have been GB #1 on WTA ranking. Instead, Swan had to play a fresh Alize Cornet, 3 days later at Nottingham and developed an injury problem, in a tournament that proved to be a points bonanza for the other GB players, with a succession of higher ranked foreign players only too glad to get off the grass as quickly as possible. If anyone wants to see how much pressure playing for GB is I encourage you to watch the matches Swan played in Sydney, especially the one against Madison Keys, they are on YouTube still. And it wasn't all down to the team captain (though Tim Henman was very good in the role), Swan was fit to burst a blood vessel the pressure she was under, and coped amazingly well, pushing the then world # 12 right to the wire over 3 sets.

-- Edited by foobarbaz on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 10:04:10 PM