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Post Info TOPIC: Week 10 - WTA1000 - Indian Wells, USA Hard


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RE: Week 10 - WTA1000 - Indian Wells, USA Hard


Coup Droit wrote:
paulisi wrote:

There is now a big gulf in points between the top 6 women and the remainder. Something that the WTA can market and promote the women's game.


 Yes, with a nice country range, and some different styles of play - it's an interesting group (and even a couple below too). Carayol makes the point about the top three: 

Tumaini Carayol
 
@tumcarayol
·
 
Iga Swiatek, Aryna Sabalenka and Elena Rybakina: - the three current grand slam champions - the top three players in the WTA race - 3/4 semi-finalists in Indian Wells Not bad.



-- Edited by Coup Droit on Friday 17th of March 2023 07:53:06 AM


 The issue for the wta is that these 3 arent from big markets - Poland, Belarus and Kazakhstan arent sadly going to make the game lots of money and their public non tennis exposure is low. Of the top 6, the other 4 are pegula and Coca Gauff , being American helps if they can win slams - the currency in the wider public eye- and Ons Jabeur pulls in an interesting Arabic and Muslim perspective, which could be great for the game, but again slams would help market her. Caroline Garcia is the other top 6 and , for me, as a non womens tennis follower, she is pretty much faceless and has no profile at all. 

the big name of course that they want and need up there, Osaka aside, is Emma. Shes got the profile and the slams, needs to get back to a decent top 20 or 10 ranking to make that even more marketable. or at least make the marketing credibility more secure. 



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Even as Emma's biggest fan, I hardly think the WTA 'need' Emma for their top group to be a success

It's a bit much to put on Emma's shoulders - as though, with Emma it works, without Emma it doesn't

We've had plenty of top players from Russia/Serbia/Romania etc that have drawn the crowds

Poland might not be a big market but neither is Romania and yet Halep was a huge name, as was Ana Ivanovic, and plenty of others

I think Rybakina (who obviously is in the top 6 if you add Wimbly points) balances Sabalenka quite well (you have the reserved one versus the heart-on-her-sleeve sort of one)

Ons is a real pull

And the major coup de grace is having two Americans (including Coco, so young, so marketable)

An Asian player would be good....that's what's needed to make a perfect batch

And, of course, for us, Emma back in the pack would be nice, and great for certain marketers, but hardly the be all and end all.



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Coup Droit wrote:

Even as Emma's biggest fan, I hardly think the WTA 'need' Emma for their top group to be a success

It's a bit much to put on Emma's shoulders - as though, with Emma it works, without Emma it doesn't

We've had plenty of top players from Russia/Serbia/Romania etc that have drawn the crowds

Poland might not be a big market but neither is Romania and yet Halep was a huge name, as was Ana Ivanovic, and plenty of others

I think Rybakina (who obviously is in the top 6 if you add Wimbly points) balances Sabalenka quite well (you have the reserved one versus the heart-on-her-sleeve sort of one)

Ons is a real pull

And the major coup de grace is having two Americans (including Coco, so young, so marketable)

An Asian player would be good....that's what's needed to make a perfect batch

And, of course, for us, Emma back in the pack would be nice, and great for certain marketers, but hardly the be all and end all.


 I think what Emma brings is a star quality and glamour appeal that goes outside tennis, and not just british. The Americans like her a lot and winning the US open as opposed to say France or Aussie helped that. Im not sure Sabalenka and Swiatek have that appeal which players like Halep or Ivanovic head- lets be frank , and it is wrong, im talking a Glamour appeal that wrongly is only applied by media and social media to the womens game and whilst wrong, it is real. 

in that context , Emma brings something to the table and add the Americans and Ons and its in decent shape potentially In terms of covering a lot of bases. 



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Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)

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Coup Droit wrote:

Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)


 Emma brings people to tennis in a way the others don't.  They are big names if you follow tennis, Emma is a big name in general.

ETA She transcends the sport in a way the others don't.  It's a lot to bear but kudos to her parents, they have raised a young woman that can cope with it. Head very firmly on her shoulders



-- Edited by emmsie69 on Friday 17th of March 2023 10:06:21 AM

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emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)


 Emma brings people to tennis in a way the others don't.  They are big names if you follow tennis, Emma is a big name in general.

ETA She transcends the sport in a way the others don't.  It's a lot to bear but kudos to her parents, they have raised a young woman that can cope with it. Head very firmly on her shoulders



-- Edited by emmsie69 on Friday 17th of March 2023 10:06:21 AM


Emma studied maths and economics at A level and no doubt would have gone on to University and studied something like business studies, had she not decided to follow a tennis career. Now you could view her as running her own very successful business. She hires key staff, markets her own products and manages to cash flow. It looks as if she is developing a very useful skill set to use when she finally retires from tennis. 



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I think that's the point John is trying to make here, Emma transcends the sport. Halep was a big name in tennis, yes, but very few sports fans who don't follow tennis would know the name.

If tennis wants to expand its base it will do so more easily with Emma and Osaka back at the top (and Gauff too).

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LordBrownof wrote:

I think that's the point John is trying to make here, Emma transcends the sport. Halep was a big name in tennis, yes, but very few sports fans who don't follow tennis would know the name.

If tennis wants to expand its base it will do so more easily with Emma and Osaka back at the top (and Gauff too).


 You said what i tried to say very much more eloquently! Thank you! 



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emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)


 Emma brings people to tennis in a way the others don't.  They are big names if you follow tennis, Emma is a big name in general.

ETA She transcends the sport in a way the others don't.  It's a lot to bear but kudos to her parents, they have raised a young woman that can cope with it. Head very firmly on her shoulders



-- Edited by emmsie69 on Friday 17th of March 2023 10:06:21 AM


 Exactly - as LordBrownof and Emmsie say, is what I tried to say! 



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JonH comes home wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)


 Emma brings people to tennis in a way the others don't.  They are big names if you follow tennis, Emma is a big name in general.

ETA She transcends the sport in a way the others don't.  It's a lot to bear but kudos to her parents, they have raised a young woman that can cope with it. Head very firmly on her shoulders



-- Edited by emmsie69 on Friday 17th of March 2023 10:06:21 AM


 Exactly - as LordBrownof and Emmsie say, is what I tried to say! 


 I doubt if Emma is yet as big a name world-wide as we may think. Also Simona is a vastly bigger star in Romania than Emma is in UK.



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sliced backhand wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)


 Emma brings people to tennis in a way the others don't.  They are big names if you follow tennis, Emma is a big name in general.

ETA She transcends the sport in a way the others don't.  It's a lot to bear but kudos to her parents, they have raised a young woman that can cope with it. Head very firmly on her shoulders



-- Edited by emmsie69 on Friday 17th of March 2023 10:06:21 AM


 Exactly - as LordBrownof and Emmsie say, is what I tried to say! 


 I doubt if Emma is yet as big a name world-wide as we may think. Also Simona is a vastly bigger star in Romania than Emma is in UK.


 Yeah but - as you can see by earnings, Emma is way ahead of virtually any tennis player apart from Serena and Osaka , and all the others in the top list currently , which demonstrates that she is a big brand. 



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The ideal is some big more consistent players who have big rivalries amongst themselves and are targets for the orhers plus having names at least mear the top that transcend beyond just results.

While there is a sort of rankings breakaway top group just at the moment, to my mind it is too early to call on that one - the recent few years of women's tennis suggest it could be all change through the rest of the year, leaving a very muddled narrative. So I think a watching brief on that one.

Much as yes we can be parochial at times and it is more than about just one or two players, Emma to my mind is right in there with Osaka as two players that being near the top would certainly help on a global basis. We indeed do not have any Asians currently in the top ranked but both Emma and Naomi have an important Asian impact even ranked as they are and would have that much more positive impact if and when ranked much higher again.

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There are ten players under the age of 21, who are in the top 100 or who have won at least one WTA event, who could at some point rocket up the rankings as Swiatek did.

Emma Raducanu 1xGS
Coco Gauff 3x250
Leylah Fernandez 2x250
Marta Kostyuk 1x250
Linda Fruhvirtova 1x250
Diana Schnaider 1x125
Qinwen Zheng 1x125

Just outside the top 100 at present are:
Clara Tauson 2x250 plus 1x125
Diane Parry 1x125

Inside the top 100 but not yet having won a WTA event:
Linda Noskova

None of the young players have yet won a WTA1000 or WTA500.



-- Edited by Peter too on Friday 17th of March 2023 08:19:39 PM

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sliced backhand wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

Yes, Emma does, undoubtedly. And when Anna Kournikova was playing, the tabloids were all very happy (even though she won nothing)
But the Henin-Clijsters rivalry was great viewing, as was Graf-Seles (a while back, I admit).
And none of those four is what you're talking about in terms of 'glamour appeal'
Neither a lot of other crowd favourites
I think stars you can follow, can get to know, and love or hate, are important (as paulisi implies)
Glamour is another quality - it doesn't go amiss - it adds an extra dimension (albeit rather irritating at times)
But it's not essential

(Of course, if Emma would like to get into the top 6, that would be great, don't get me wrong. And with the zero-to-hero story of her US run, at such a young age, and the problems after, she's got crowd appeal, no matter what she looks like. But I don't think the women's tour 'needs' her)


 Emma brings people to tennis in a way the others don't.  They are big names if you follow tennis, Emma is a big name in general.

ETA She transcends the sport in a way the others don't.  It's a lot to bear but kudos to her parents, they have raised a young woman that can cope with it. Head very firmly on her shoulders



-- Edited by emmsie69 on Friday 17th of March 2023 10:06:21 AM


 Exactly - as LordBrownof and Emmsie say, is what I tried to say! 


 I doubt if Emma is yet as big a name world-wide as we may think. Also Simona is a vastly bigger star in Romania than Emma is in UK.


 Isn't that more to to with the fact Romania has less sports stars than the UK?



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And the fact she's been around for ages so has built up a fanbase there.

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