Weeks 35 & 36 - US Open, Flushing Meadows, New York City (hard)

the addict · Tennis legend

Weeks 35 & 36 - US Open, Flushing Meadows, New York City (hard)

indiana · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Emma the 2nd serve destroyer ( and protector of her own 2nd serve )

First / second serve points won %

Emma vs Benic : 67/62 vs 70/43

Emma vs Sakkari : 73/69 vs 71/34

The 43% success rate Bencic achieved is the highest any of Emma's MD opponents have managed, with a big drop off for second serve for all bar Rogers who had awful serves won %s for both first and second.
_____________________

Re my earlier post above regarding Emma's serve points won percentages vs her MD opponents, the figures in the final for % of first / second serve points won were :

Emma vs Fernandez : 65/50 vs 56/45

So much closer on second serve ( at 50-45 ) than vs her earlier opponents and Leylah achieved the highest % for second serve points won of any them at 45%. Still means that Emma fairly comfortably won the majority of her opponents' 2nd serve points in every round.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:
Helen40 wrote:
RBBOT wrote:
Some nice key stats on the US open site that explain why she broke down her opponent's games:

- She had 72% of first serves in, rest of the field 63%
- Her second serve speed averaged 93mph, rest of the field 82mph
- She returned 93% of second serves from inside the court, and the other 7% from within 2m of the baseline. Rest of the field, 47% inside the court, 45% within 2m and 8% beyond 2m back

Regarding Chicago, someone posted further up that grand slam winners get unlimited wild cards, so she could now enter both Chicago and Indian Wells on a wild card.
Is that right because I thought there was some question of Andy being wise with which ones to use as it was limited?
It would be interesting to see how Emma's stats compared to Leylah's.
Don't know re Andy. Though anyway ATP and WTA rules very often diverge

It would seem that RBBOT is correct about Emma's unlimited WCs, and that Andy only qualifies once he is 35.

RBBOT · Futures qualifying

Another nice stat - Emma finishes 20:0 in sets, and Daniel Medvedev 21:1 - both winning 20 more than they lost!

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

A day or two later, and it still hasn't sunk in.. I mean the magnitude of what she's done, how unusual it is. Probably because she's so chilled out about it herself. I feel like this is all a dream!

Deucebag · Lower Club Player

I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine who follows Junior tennis and was lucky enough to be in New York for Emmas match. Now I don?t really follow Junior tennis but he does and says that early on Emma was the shining light of a group of British players who were quietly spoken about as a hopefull golden generation for British tennis.Spink,Fisher,Banks,Bilchev, Kartal (maybe others)and Apparently they underachieved at team competitions for Great Britain but all did well in individual competitions like orange bowl, tennis Europe and Itf Juniors with Emma reaching a world junior ranking of 20 followed by Banks with a world junior ranking of 40. Unfortunately out of that group there is only Banks who has stuck about and remained competitive with Emma over the past few years but I was just wondering if having a good group of players like this around the same age increases the likelihood of getting the best out of our players. I remember watching a program with Nick Bollettieri at IMG academies and he said he had Sampras,Courier, Agassi and others all pushing each other day in day out. Also you could look at the class of 92 up at Manchester United although they were obviously on the same team. I just wonder if this increases the chances of pushing our players through to the top.Always looking over your shoulder or trying to catch other players surely this can squeeze an extra 10-15% out of each player.

Also any interesting stories or matches from Emmas juniors that anybody has seen? I know Indiana and Coup Follow the juniors quite a lot. When was her true talent really seen on Court?

-- Edited by Deucebag on Monday 13th of September 2021 09:02:32 AM

-- Edited by Deucebag on Monday 13th of September 2021 09:27:08 AM

Pancho P · Lower Club Player

Emma s neighbour, " She used to hit my car with her tennis balls ". Ha, were not Brits unless were moaning about something. Did say she was a lovely
girl though. Be great if Emma goes back to hitting with her dad in the street as she did during lockdown.

Don't know about Wade, I saw Jones and Mortimer win Wimbledon as well ( we sooo wanted Trueman to win ). Don't worry about my physicality
though, I can still bend my legs like Emma on baseline returns........ and you think I'm Joking !!

Deucebag · Lower Club Player

I hate to tell you this but if she hit your car she was aiming for your car as that girl does not miss!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Deucebag, I'm not sure about that golden generation you're talking about.

Based on my couple of contacts in the LTA, they honestly are ALWAYS talking about the next cohort as being the golden generation. (Keeps them in a job, you might say).

I'd followed Emma's results, in Tennis Europe U14 sort of events, and then in ITF, at Liverpool, say. They were promising but not amazing. But kids' results are not what it's all about.

I think I saw Emma for the first time in 2017 at Roehampton when she lost in the first round 2-6 2-6 to Barbara Matusova.

Emma was completely outclassed but Matusova was three years older. It's a big difference at that age. And Emma was hobbling a little after her match (although it didn't seem to hamper her in the match).

You could see that she had a very nice strike of the ball (good technique) and a dynamic style of play, which I like. Hate 'lazy' players. With her physique, it boded well. (And obviously the LTA had invested tons into her - I was told she was getting 20 hours of training per week, paid for by the LTA at that time).

But could you predict that she would do what she's done? Or (let's be reasonably) even say would get to the QFs at age 18? No. Absolutely not.

However, as is important, she followed a very good trajectory - because she had a super base, you could really see her pathway:

I also saw her in QR1 at the Wimbly qualis, where she lost in three sets: Q1: RADUCANU, Emma (GBR) WC 873 lost to STEFKOVA, Barbora (CZE) 715 4-6 7-5 2-6

And was, again, playing a very adult, dynamic, attacking game which was a pleasure to watch. I posted:

"Emma too played a super game, right up there. She had cramp in her calf in the third, as well as getting shoulder massages (someone mentioned tendonitis), and was never going to have the strength to get a win in the third, which is not a criticism, she's got a good physique but she's only 15."

But, again, would that predict what happened? Not in a million years.

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Monday 13th of September 2021 09:43:10 AM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I think Paulisi posted a thread from an event in the Wirral in 2016, or was it DavidC, where Emma talent was called out and she won the event.

The Tennis Talker has also posted some 2013 tweets this weekend where someone called out Emma as one to watch; I am sure it was 2013, and also some more in 2016

Deucebag · Lower Club Player

Thanks for that coup.
I know that nobody could have ever predicted this but was Emma a standout junior compared to other players previously or the same age or has she just come into her own over the past couple of years?
I mean its amazing because although we have had Grand slam success with Andy and Johanna Going deep into Grand Slams The question always remained could it be done with a British player who stays in Britain. I have always thought why not we cant always blame the weather when people are winning Grand Slams from Poland and Latvia.
This is a massive success story for this country and hopefully will have a really good impact further down the line.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
I think Paulisi posted a thread from an event in the Wirral in 2016, or was it DavidC, where Emma talent was called out and she won the event.

The Tennis Talker has also posted some 2013 tweets this weekend where someone called out Emma as one to watch; I am sure it was 2013, and also some more in 2016

Yes, but the trouble with all these (as Indy and stays guys will tell you) is you have to see how many others were called out as ones to watch who didn't go on to win the is open.

I.e. if you call out all the main players, you're bound to hit.

And calling out as one to watch is hardly the same as what Emma did. I mean, several people had money on Emma at age 15 to become top 100. But to win a Grand Slam at age 18? No

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Deucebag wrote:
Thanks for that coup.
I know that nobody could have ever predicted this but was Emma a standout junior compared to other players previously or the same age or has she just come into her own over the past couple of years?
I mean its amazing because although we have had Grand slam success with Andy and Johanna Going deep into Grand Slams The question always remained could it be done with a British player who stays in Britain. I have always thought why not we cant always blame the weather when people are winning Grand Slams from Poland and Latvia.
This is a massive success story for this country and hopefully will have a really good impact further down the line.

Yes, you're absolutely spot on, Deucebage, and it's the question all the coaches/federations etc ask - can you really say that Emma stood out in that way? And the answer has to be 'no'.

Indeed, Leylah might be an even better question - she was dropped by her federation at one point.

Indeed, federations are only trying to pick top 20 players (or maybe top 50) - they know that the next bit is pretty unpredictable. That's why you (generally) need the pyramid - to play the percentages.

For me, when choosing a player for my 'to follow' list or top 500/200/100 bet, I always like the players who are dynamic, athletic, and who take the ball on. Good technique by age 14 or so seems important as it really lays the base. I know there are more defensive players, with quirky serves, say, who are very skillful and do well, but I'm happy to maybe miss those ones (and more drop by the wayside than do well, IMO). As such, Emma ticked all the boxes. But so did some others.

Height and physique does help too. It's not an absolute thing, but girls who are still very short for a tennis player at age 15, say, are going to struggle, overall. (Which is why the Leylah thing is even more interesting - you have to be really smart to pick out her potential at age 14). Background and character are also critical. Which is the one side I never get to know firsthand, really (although I try and get impressions from people who know better). Both Emma and Leylah show that in spades (although so I know do others who are not in US Open finals). For instance, Coco was a really easy pick at age 13. Whitney was also an easy pick not to follow, IMO. (Which is not to say that Whitney is chopped liver, of course)

And watch out for Hannah Klugman smile

indiana · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
I think Paulisi posted a thread from an event in the Wirral in 2016, or was it DavidC, where Emma talent was called out and she won the event.

The Tennis Talker has also posted some 2013 tweets this weekend where someone called out Emma as one to watch; I am sure it was 2013, and also some more in 2016
Yes, but the trouble with all these (as Indy and stays guys will tell you) is you have to see how many others were called out as ones to watch who didn't go on to win the is open.
I.e. if you call out all the main players, you're bound to hit.
And calling out as one to watch is hardly the same as what Emma did. I mean, several people had money on Emma at age 15 to become top 100. But to win a Grand Slam at age 18? No

Yes I've called out Emma over the years, probably no more or less than many others. But say Holly Fischer too in the past.

And also most certainly I have called out Marni Banks more than most based on some very good wins and competitive losses against such as Emma herself in both juniors and seniors and also Jodie. But she hasn't pushed through, even to have a WTA ranking, and had variable results when she has played. Could be many reasons for that but there's the problem - issues do crop up, so many uncertainties with young players. So have backup, keep more numbers in the frame. I hope she yet really pushes through ( she too is still only 18 ) but so far not nearly as much as I and a few others imagined, and in general it's - win some, lose very many more

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 13th of September 2021 11:27:39 AM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

From the BBC, WTA Tour Finals looking likely for Guadalajara, Mexico

"The prestigious WTA event in Indian Wells is just over three weeks away and although Raducanu's ranking will rise to 23, she would compete as a wildcard as the entry list has already been published.

If she plays and performs well in California, there is an outside chance Raducanu could qualify for the season-ending WTA Finals for the year's top-eight players.

The Finals are expected to be staged in Guadalajara, Mexico, in early November, although that is yet to be officially confirmed."