Wimbledon

HarryGem · Club Coach

RE: Wimbledon

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

HarryGem wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
PaulM wrote:
Surely the problem with the WTA/ATP response is that it doesn't punish Wimbledon in any way at all (assuming that was the intent)? The players will still show up, so will the crowds and TV audiences, the prestige is still there even in tour terms it's strictly turned into an exhibition. The only people being punished are the players who will get no points and, depending on what Wimbledon decide to do, potentially a cut in prize money.

Freezing the points for RUS/BLR players seemed the obvious route with a warning of more severe sanctions if replicated.

I don't really see what the Tours think they have achieved here. If everyone still turns up to play in front of packed crowds Wimbledon and others will just shrug.
This
Exactly. I'm surprised no player has yet threatened the WTA/ATP with legal action over this completely stupid and unfair, to so many players, decision.
I'm afraid I'm of the opinion that it is time Tennis took a long hard look at itself. other sports such as golf, motor racing, skiing, skating, badminton and others have, I believe, taken, the quite justifiable, decision to ban Russian athletes from competing. Putin takes a great deal of satisfaction and national kudos from Russia participating in sport both at a national and personal level and Russia has launched an overt attempt not just to illegally invade another country but has set out to deliberately ethnically cleanse it of Ukrainian identity.
The mouthpieces of the Russian state TV, well known supporters of the Russian Government have also broadened threats towards countries such as Poland and the Baltic states. It is completely unacceptable that players from Ukraine should have to play against citizens of a country that has not only illegally invaded it but is systematically attempting to eradicate it totally.
Wimbledon has taken a moral standpoint which is, in my opinion, completely justified and it is high time tennis as a whole followed its example.
Maybe it is time the ATP/WTA were replaced by other organisations.

Spot on.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

One thing we can guarantee is that every ranking list produced for the next 12 months will have a what if against it with perhaps 2021 points used to show what it might have looked like. Fucsovics of Hungary is very upset as he will lose 360 points from last year without replacement and drop from 60 to 130 or thereabouts.

The ATP statement take about the T7 - ie atp, wta, itf and the 4 slams- and how they need to work together as one unified governance for the game, which I agree with. If however the US Open supports wimbledons stance, and follows suit, it will become very interesting. We could see a major shift in power start to happen away from the atp and wta.

dodrade · Satellite level

Cameron Norrie not as convinced as others that Wimbledon will still attract the top players without ranking points.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/may/22/norrie-backs-top-players-to-skip-wimbledon-after-atp-decision

GAMEOVER · Satellite level

HarryGem wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
PaulM wrote:
Surely the problem with the WTA/ATP response is that it doesn't punish Wimbledon in any way at all (assuming that was the intent)? The players will still show up, so will the crowds and TV audiences, the prestige is still there even in tour terms it's strictly turned into an exhibition. The only people being punished are the players who will get no points and, depending on what Wimbledon decide to do, potentially a cut in prize money.

Freezing the points for RUS/BLR players seemed the obvious route with a warning of more severe sanctions if replicated.

I don't really see what the Tours think they have achieved here. If everyone still turns up to play in front of packed crowds Wimbledon and others will just shrug.
This
Exactly. I'm surprised no player has yet threatened the WTA/ATP with legal action over this completely stupid and unfair, to so many players, decision.
I'm afraid I'm of the opinion that it is time Tennis took a long hard look at itself. other sports such as golf, motor racing, skiing, skating, badminton and others have, I believe, taken, the quite justifiable, decision to ban Russian athletes from competing. Putin takes a great deal of satisfaction and national kudos from Russia participating in sport both at a national and personal level and Russia has launched an overt attempt not just to illegally invade another country but has set out to deliberately ethnically cleanse it of Ukrainian identity.
The mouthpieces of the Russian state TV, well known supporters of the Russian Government have also broadened threats towards countries such as Poland and the Baltic states. It is completely unacceptable that players from Ukraine should have to play against citizens of a country that has not only illegally invaded it but is systematically attempting to eradicate it totally.
Wimbledon has taken a moral standpoint which is, in my opinion, completely justified and it is high time tennis as a whole followed its example.
Maybe it is time the ATP/WTA were replaced by other organisations.

Golf does not have the problem of tennis because there are no Russian golfers on the circuit. Not sure whether they even have any courses.

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

Norris does seem to imply that the ATP werent straightforward with the players as to what would happen with last years points and now many more are against the stripping of points as last years wont remain .

Whether some players skip the tournament , I think its likely given theres no penalty for that and those not chasing the pay cheque and who realistically have no chance of winning will wonder whats the point .

PaulM · Tennis legend

I hadn't really appreciated the action a lot of other sports had taken in terms of athlete bans. It does seem odd tennis had got itself into such a mess one way or the other. From what I can gather the reactions to skating, Motorsport etc... bans were pretty muted? But maybe they have equivalent forums where people were having discussions just like this!

-- Edited by PaulM on Monday 23rd of May 2022 08:06:50 AM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

PaulM wrote:
I hadn't really appreciated the action a lot of other sports had taken in terms of athlete bans. It does seem odd tennis had got itself into such a mess one way or the other. From what I can gather the reactions to skating, Motorsport etc... bans were pretty muted? But maybe they have equivalent forums where people were having discussions just like this!

-- Edited by PaulM on Monday 23rd of May 2022 08:06:50 AM

In other sports, two things tended to be in place to make the reaction less eventful!!

1 - like motor racing, there really arent many Russians taking part, so the impact was insignificant!

2 - they have one clear governing body and thus no fighting took place at the governing body level

Tennis has 7 governing bodies, the so called T7, and all of them had a say and created a right old fuss! and none of them worked together, so it became a big thing with lots of discussion.

Madadman · Top national player

Starting to see a few bits from players either about Prize Money being down or not interested without the points. I guess Prize Money might go down if the Broadcast/commercial deals have ranking point stipulations in them.

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
One thing we can guarantee is that every ranking list produced for the next 12 months will have a what if against it with perhaps 2021 points used to show what it might have looked like. Fucsovics of Hungary is very upset as he will lose 360 points from last year without replacement and drop from 60 to 130 or thereabouts.

The ATP statement take about the T7 - ie atp, wta, itf and the 4 slams- and how they need to work together as one unified governance for the game, which I agree with. If however the US Open supports wimbledons stance, and follows suit, it will become very interesting. We could see a major shift in power start to happen away from the atp and wta.

I make it that Fucsovics will be about WR 120 at worst after Wimbledon, especially bearing in mind points in general will come down with Wimbledon points coming off and no new ones being added.

That seems about a pretty appropriate ranking for Fucsovics given his last year and his 2021 Wimbledon being such an outlier for him, as he had previously won only one singles MD match at Wimbledon.

I think more relevant, if anyone is potentially unlucky, are consistently good grass court players who were quite likely ( but far from certain ) to earn good points in 2022. I don't personally think 2021 points should be retained - time has moved on, even some generally good grass court players will have exited early in 2021 and so have little to retain anyway, plus no help to new players on the scene. And in Fucsovics' case that would be a lucky and fairly undeserved break if they were. I am afraid he has done very little since Wimbledon 2021 or at Wimbledon beforehand to indicate that he was going to do anything much at Wimbledon 2022.

He's simply not getting what would likely have been a very lucky break for him ( unless he was going to repeat ) if the ATP had let Wimbledon 2021 points be retained. He should be upset about his overall form in the last year.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61553327

Osaka thinking of not playing due to points void at Wimbledon.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

It possibly sounds more like a convenient excuse to me. She also said this 5 months ago - "I also know that Im not quite worried about my ranking. I think that it will go up to where it needs to go up to Honestly, if Im not ranked at Slams, I think the other people that Im playing against would be more worried about it than I am."

I do think a few better players will withdraw though, especially those that have decent runs in Paris.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61553327

Osaka thinking of not playing due to points void at Wimbledon.

I've just seen the article on the BBC site, which I have as my home page. Iga Swiatek & Sloane Stephens seem happy with Wimbedon's stance. Given Osaka's current indifferent form, would she be any great loss?

the addict · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61553327

Osaka thinking of not playing due to points void at Wimbledon.

On current form she's only missing out on 10 points, and doesn't need the money !

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

the addict wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/61553327

Osaka thinking of not playing due to points void at Wimbledon.
On current form she's only missing out on 10 points, and doesn't need the money !

biggrin