Wimbledon

Steve J · Lower Club Player

Wimbledon

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

I might write more in a few days but this is absolutely the right decision by the ATP to strip Wimbledon of its ranking points. It now needs to loose it's Grand Slam status. The tournament is now no more than a well paid friendly knockabout. The discriminatory decision to ban Russian players that has lead to this will also hurt any low ranked player who has a good run as they won't get the points that would push them up to playing on the next tour level.
The ATP need to look at Great Britain's standing in world tennis.
No tennis player should have to sign any document saying what they do or don't support, politics should play no part in sport and a players political beliefs should not be a bar to entry nor should they be coerced to sign a document that could be used against them later.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Supposedly over 90 players have written to their respective player councils to object to the ATP's decision, which is a lot more than objected to Wimbledon's decision

Large resentment that the ATP/WTA are not representing players' views

Personally, I have no problem with what the ATP have done - and no problem with what Wimbledon have done either - but we've been here before....

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

In the ATP statement that seemed to suggest the banned players would have been willing to sign statements , could a way have been found to do this with language that could have not led to any repercussions , if this was possible not sure why Wimbledon decided to refuse this avenue.

The ATP also seem to take issue with the way Wimbledon came to this decision without any consultation .

In criticism of the ATP they are now proposing to not even protect the rankings of those who will lose points and have zero connection with Russia or Belarus .

One wonders whether it was a case of a few elites of the Player Council overriding any concerns of other tour players.

Whatever one thinks of the Wimbledon decision to much of the public the ATP and WTA decisions are support for Russia , and in effect the ATP have just crowned Medvedev as new number one , another own goal !

The ATP and WTA could have found a middle path by halving the ranking points on offer with a threat in future to strip the full points if decisions are made unilaterally.

Both sides in this sorry state of affairs deserve criticism , and both need to work out a compromise.

-- Edited by nicofrance on Friday 20th of May 2022 11:41:43 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Mark1968 wrote:
I might write more in a few days but this is absolutely the right decision by the ATP to strip Wimbledon of its ranking points. It now needs to loose it's Grand Slam status. The tournament is now no more than a well paid friendly knockabout. The discriminatory decision to ban Russian players that has lead to this will also hurt any low ranked player who has a good run as they won't get the points that would push them up to playing on the next tour level.
The ATP need to look at Great Britain's standing in world tennis.
No tennis player should have to sign any document saying what they do or don't support, politics should play no part in sport and a players political beliefs should not be a bar to entry nor should they be coerced to sign a document that could be used against them later.

Whilst you know i disagree with most of what you say, I particularly want to highlight that Wimbledon specifically did not want players to sign any sort of declaration, indeed it is your beloved ATP that seem to suggest that would have been acceptable but Wimbledon who have clearly said it would not be acceptable as it would have opened the players to harm. So lets not criticise the wimbledon folks for something they are not fact guilty of.

indiana · Tennis legend

It's about unilateral discrimination against individual players, most particularly where there is no alternative level of competition, as there clearly isn't with Wimbledon.

So personally I have no problem with the ATP / WTA disagreement and the refusal to countenance ranking points for Wimbledon. Be thankful the ATP / WTA have not gone further.

And IMO Wimbledon this year will not be nearly as effected this year as some folk seem to think ( exhibition, knockabout etc. ) although the UK government / LTA / Wimbledon combination almost deserve it to be more negatively affected for ( again IMO ) their fairly senseless decision making. As it is understandably I rather doubt the ATP / WTA will be rethinking again their ultimately/ eventually reasonable overall decision, with as of now just Wimbledon not going to contribute ranking points.

And dealt with for this year. It would be a nonsense, which I am sure rhe ITF ( as the ultimate authority in that regard ) are not remotely considering, to take away Wimbledon's Grand Slam status. Let us all hope that things in the big world picture and in the tennis picture have calmed down a great deal by next year and we can revert to norm.

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Mark1968 wrote:
I might write more in a few days but this is absolutely the right decision by the ATP to strip Wimbledon of its ranking points. It now needs to loose it's Grand Slam status. The tournament is now no more than a well paid friendly knockabout. The discriminatory decision to ban Russian players that has lead to this will also hurt any low ranked player who has a good run as they won't get the points that would push them up to playing on the next tour level.
The ATP need to look at Great Britain's standing in world tennis.
No tennis player should have to sign any document saying what they do or don't support, politics should play no part in sport and a players political beliefs should not be a bar to entry nor should they be coerced to sign a document that could be used against them later.
Whilst you know i disagree with most of what you say, I particularly want to highlight that Wimbledon specifically did not want players to sign any sort of declaration, indeed it is your beloved ATP that seem to suggest that would have been acceptable but Wimbledon who have clearly said it would not be acceptable as it would have opened the players to harm. So lets not criticise the wimbledon folks for something they are not fact guilty of.

That appears to be true Jon and fair comment. That seems to have eminated from UK government minister(s)? Though it's all a bit murky as to who is really making the UK tennis decisions.

However, the main thing for me remains individual players ending up being unilaterally denied a chance to compete in a Slam ( so clearly no alternative for them ). For that absolutely no ranking points for Wimbledon simply seems to me a perfectly reasonable decision.

Ban whoever we want in general as a nation but the ATP / WTA are then well within their rights to deny their ranking points. And it was very little surprise to me that they chose to do that with Wimbledon.

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

If the 4 grand slams had agreed this joint position the ATP and WTA would not be stripping them all of ranking points.

Surely there was a form of declaration that could have been agreed that could have been worded in a way that wouldnt lead to any repercussions .

Did Wimbledon even bother to discuss this with the ATP and WTA and the government.

Call it hubris or just arrogance that the Wimbledon authorities thought the ATP and WTA wouldnt dare strip them of points .

The ATP and WTA are due some criticism though for punishing the majority of players , and could have found a much more creative punishment that made a point but didnt go totally nuclear .

Theres still 5 weeks to Wimbledon and Im sure weve not heard the last of this . One can only hope that some form of compromise can be found .

-- Edited by nicofrance on Saturday 21st of May 2022 12:03:52 AM

-- Edited by nicofrance on Saturday 21st of May 2022 12:04:04 AM

dodrade · Satellite level

I do find it frustrating how the AELTC/LTA have got themselves into this mess at the government's behest when Russian players have been continuing to play on the tour throughout largely without incident or protests against them. Do we really believe anti-Russian feeling is uniquely high in the UK?

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

Its likely that if the government had mandated this rather than just issued guidance that the ATP and WTA would not have stripped the points .

They seem to take issue with the fact that Wimbledon had other options and also why did they not even bother discussing this with the ATP and WTA.

Wimbledon would then have been aware of the strength of feeling and possible stripping of ranking points .

-- Edited by nicofrance on Saturday 21st of May 2022 12:27:58 AM

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

Whats even more extraordinary in this affair is the government guidance only asks for a declaration that any player isnt funded by Putin, Russia or Belarus and will be neutral as in not making any pro Putin comments .

This type of declaration is hardly that controversial and I cant see how that would risk the players or their families safety .

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Out of interest, and it may be buried deep in this thread, do we know the words of any declaration that was being proposed by the government that the players be asked to sign? Or is it more of a vague concept that Wimbledon could have worked on the words of if they wished ?

One thing of note in the atp statement is their criticism of tennos governance and unity that implies the bodies werent really working together on this - amen and hopefully this will be a catalyst .

Elegant Point · Satellite level

May have missed this in the thread, but if Wimbledon points from last year come off will Medvedev replace Djokovic as #1? A certain irony perhaps??

the addict · Tennis legend

Elegant Point wrote:
May have missed this in the thread, but if Wimbledon points from last year come off will Medvedev replace Djokovic as #1? A certain irony perhaps??

Yes, Medvedev would become #1. Djoko drops 2000, Med drops 180, and the current difference is only 680 points. No doubt the ATP were aware of this when making their decision !

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

the addict wrote:
Elegant Point wrote:
May have missed this in the thread, but if Wimbledon points from last year come off will Medvedev replace Djokovic as #1? A certain irony perhaps??
Yes, Medvedev would become #1. Djoko drops 2000, Med drops 180, and the current difference is only 680 points. No doubt the ATP were aware of this when making their decision !

Incredibly ironic.

what happens in the brits ranking positions men and women? Presumably Emma has a bit of a hit from this? For the men, Dan and Cam made a few rounds last time so will lose points but how it all sits relatively , I dont know.
Or in doubles? Anyone going to be badly hit, relative to their ranking?

indy, TA, Lambda or any of our ranking gurus able to provide a view?