Wimbledon

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

Wimbledon

dodrade · Satellite level

nicofrance wrote:
Im not certain Wimbledon is out of the woods yet .

Why the delay in making that decision . Some in the ATP Player Council might be kicking up a fuss now because of the green light to the other grass court events .

Apparently the ATP made that decision because the banned players are still able to collect ranking points at other events during that time . That wont be the case during Wimbledon.

-- Edited by nicofrance on Monday 16th of May 2022 10:59:33 PM

Could this boost Novak's PTPA given the ATP Player Council have proved ineffective in this instance?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

nicofrance wrote:
Im not certain Wimbledon is out of the woods yet .

Why the delay in making that decision . Some in the ATP Player Council might be kicking up a fuss now because of the green light to the other grass court events .

Apparently the ATP made that decision because the banned players are still able to collect ranking points at other events during that time . That wont be the case during Wimbledon.

Fair point.

But as all the players (IMO) will come for Wimbledon anyway, the only events I thought mattered were the non-Wimbly ones, so I think the main issue is sorted.

The lack of other events during Wimbly (and other Slams) is, supposedly, one of the topics currently being discussed as part of the negotiations for the new contract (although I guess that's no more than saying all issues under the agreement are being discussed - that's what negotiating a new agreement means)

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
nicofrance wrote:
Im not certain Wimbledon is out of the woods yet .

Why the delay in making that decision . Some in the ATP Player Council might be kicking up a fuss now because of the green light to the other grass court events .

Apparently the ATP made that decision because the banned players are still able to collect ranking points at other events during that time . That wont be the case during Wimbledon.
Fair point.
But as all the players (IMO) will come for Wimbledon anyway, the only events I thought mattered were the non-Wimbly ones, so I think the main issue is sorted.
The lack of other events during Wimbly (and other Slams) is, supposedly, one of the topics currently being discussed as part of the negotiations for the new contract (although I guess that's no more than saying all issues under the agreement are being discussed - that's what negotiating a new agreement means)

I am sure I read somewhere that there are some major discussions on that slam/ATP contract renewal (and not sure if that is ATP alone or WTA are with them or separate - the whole joined up thing is a bit of a mess right now):

1) the ATP want / are creating these 10 day Masters events across the calendar to match the IW/Miami structure. They want to raise the profile of Masters to be near the top of the game and want to have less differentiation from the Slams in terms of prestige

2) part of that would be too make the points offered closer to each other , not double as they currently are.

3) and part of it would be enable greater opportunities for players down the ranking list by putting ATP 250 events up against the second week of a slam.

4) The ATP wants to structure the season much less ambiguously, so that each Slam and each Masters group (of 2) has a more clearly defined season of events running up to it; make each big event the pinnacle of its part of the season, although clearly these wont be equal in length etc (eg grass v clay)

The slams clearly want to protect the status of the Slams as the real pinnacle of the game and want to protect the events and points status. No idea what else is on the table , I think prizemoney will clearly be part of it.

4

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
nicofrance wrote:
Im not certain Wimbledon is out of the woods yet .

Why the delay in making that decision . Some in the ATP Player Council might be kicking up a fuss now because of the green light to the other grass court events .

Apparently the ATP made that decision because the banned players are still able to collect ranking points at other events during that time . That wont be the case during Wimbledon.
Fair point.
But as all the players (IMO) will come for Wimbledon anyway, the only events I thought mattered were the non-Wimbly ones, so I think the main issue is sorted.
The lack of other events during Wimbly (and other Slams) is, supposedly, one of the topics currently being discussed as part of the negotiations for the new contract (although I guess that's no more than saying all issues under the agreement are being discussed - that's what negotiating a new agreement means)
I am sure I read somewhere that there are some major discussions on that slam/ATP contract renewal (and not sure if that is ATP alone or WTA are with them or separate - the whole joined up thing is a bit of a mess right now):
1) the ATP want / are creating these 10 day Masters events across the calendar to match the IW/Miami structure. They want to raise the profile of Masters to be near the top of the game and want to have less differentiation from the Slams in terms of prestige
2) part of that would be too make the points offered closer to each other , not double as they currently are.
3) and part of it would be enable greater opportunities for players down the ranking list by putting ATP 250 events up against the second week of a slam.
4) The ATP wants to structure the season much less ambiguously, so that each Slam and each Masters group (of 2) has a more clearly defined season of events running up to it; make each big event the pinnacle of its part of the season, although clearly these wont be equal in length etc (eg grass v clay)
The slams clearly want to protect the status of the Slams as the real pinnacle of the game and want to protect the events and points status. No idea what else is on the table , I think prizemoney will clearly be part of it.
4

Of course they do - and the good luck with that one biggrin

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Looking like WTA will strip Wimbledon of its ranking status but keep points for the lower events

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-10826541/Wimbledon-set-stripped-ranking-points-women-banning-Russian-players.html

Atp may well follow suit.

It also seems that Queens and Halle are bidding to be made up to atp 1000 status and the British stance on all this may cost queens that position. Meaning queens would move weeks and presumably become a 250 event again?

All speculation but Mike Dickson usually knows what is going on

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

I cant see the ATP doing anything different as it would look ridiculous to have the men and women playing under different conditions .

Clearly theyll have to freeze the points now otherwise youd be punishing players for not being able to defend their points .

If the stripping of points is confirmed this will be bitterly disappointing, the level of completion will drop simply as theres less on the line , if youre a player who has little chance of lifting the trophy and financially comfortable why would you run around for 4 hours with no ranking points on offer .

It also removes the chance for qualifiers and the lower ranked players to get a jump up the rankings .

What happens if the war is still going next year , will Wimbledon be once again an exhibition event ?

At least the other grass court events will have some proper competition and thats at least a crumb of comfort but a grand slam event without ranking points will always have an asterisk by it . The reality is theres less on the line and that matters .

-- Edited by nicofrance on Tuesday 17th of May 2022 11:21:35 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

If there are no rankings points for Wimbledon from the ATP or WTA, IMO it still wouldn't be a ruddy exhibition event, too much other meaning / prestige. Not for every player but well enough. I am sure that overall Slams, and certainly Wimbledon, can prove to be very much more than that, ranking points or not

As for freezing 2021 Wimbledon points that would be an option but itself an option with some anomalies and not the only one.

Rankings are essentially normally about what have you done in total in the previous 12 months. And most of us are glad that we have been heading back to that after the temporary covid rules so arguably we could do without fresh frozen points given that would not be absolutely necessary. An option would certainly be to continue on that road and Wimbledon just not contribute points this year as not sanctioned to by the ATP or WTA nor still contribute any 2021 points.

Yes, if no Wimbledon ranking points it will survive. And survive much better compared to the dangers that are / were faced by the other UK tournaments. If these other 2022 UK tournaments still deliver ATP and WTA points then I am very much with CD that the main issue this year will have been sorted. Plenty time then until 2023.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

If Wimbledon is stripped of ranking points wait for the pop up of some of the rankings live sites doing a Wimbledon included alternative list. Its too tempting not to provide a list of what might have been. And if it changes things dramatically (eg what if someone ranked 50 wins the event) it will create a year long debate about then true rankings.

Which will keep many around here very entertained over the next 12 months.

Frankly Im of the view now to just get it sorted and move on. Points or not, the main issue is sorted and so long as the majority of players play at Wimbledon , it will still happen and be a spectacle. We talked about events with asterisks but we forget that all too quickly. Nadal has 21 slams now , hardly anyone mentions what happened with Djokovic just 4 months ago.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

My bigger upset would be if Queens lost out on the masters 1000 status that seems to be being proposed. That said, Halle is probably a better venue for such and Germany doesnt have one - it does have 4 grass court warm up events now, men and women, and so possibly deserves and has the edge, even though it would be disappointing to lose out.

Madadman · Top national player

JonH comes home wrote:
My bigger upset would be if Queens lost out on the masters 1000 status that seems to be being proposed. That said, Halle is probably a better venue for such and Germany doesnt have one - it does have 4 grass court warm up events now, men and women, and so possibly deserves and has the edge, even though it would be disappointing to lose out.

Although Queens is a 'nice' venue. It just feels too small for a masters event.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Madadman wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
My bigger upset would be if Queens lost out on the masters 1000 status that seems to be being proposed. That said, Halle is probably a better venue for such and Germany doesnt have one - it does have 4 grass court warm up events now, men and women, and so possibly deserves and has the edge, even though it would be disappointing to lose out.
Although Queens is a 'nice' venue. It just feels too small for a masters event.

I'd be delighted if Queens didn't become a 1000 event.

Shhh · Challenger level

I love Grass court tennis. For that reason I would prefer any 1000 event to go outside of the UK, to help spread the use of the surface.....or perhaps resurrect would be a better word.. It has always felt in danger of becoming just a UK surface with no respect to the traditions and history that Wimbledon still uphold. The more it is speard around the globe the better for Grass court tennis, the better for the game.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Shhh wrote:
I love Grass court tennis. For that reason I would prefer any 1000 event to go outside of the UK, to help spread the use of the surface.....or perhaps resurrect would be a better word.. It has always felt in danger of becoming just a UK surface with no respect to the traditions and history that Wimbledon still uphold. The more it is speard around the globe the better for Grass court tennis, the better for the game.

I do like that sentiment - and also feel it could still grow more on these Isles as well, with events like the Scottish Open and Irish Open at Craiglockhart and Fitzwilliam being ones I would love to see back on the ITF or Challenger circuits

nicofrance · Intermediate Club Player

The WTA have confirmed LTA grass court events will have ranking points . The decision over Wimbledon is expected in the next few days according to Russell Fuller from the BBC.