First Quarter Earnings ATP vs PGA

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

First Quarter Earnings ATP vs PGA

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Just a quick question.

Are the tennis rankings based on the actual ATP Rankings or the race Rankings. Kyle is 23 in the rankings but most of the points that have got him there were won last year and not in the "1st quarter". A more accurate measure would be to use the race rankings where Kyle is currently at 54.

Similarly what about the golf rankings - not sure how they work but have a vague memory that the are based on the last 2 years of performance.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

But then, whether you believe it's right or not, tennis does share their prize money between both sexes a lot more equally, especially in the biggest events. As a fan of the women's game, I like that they get paid very well.

A quick look at the women's golf top earners this year:

1. Ko $1m
2. Korda $481k
3. Park 374k
4. Lee 373k
5. Ciganda 372k
10. Munoz 296k
24. Kim 159k

Bianca Andreescu is currently ranked WTA 23rd and has already made almost $1.6m this year, granted $1.3 of that came just from winning IW alone and she's in the top 10 in the race, but that IW purse is as much as the women's golfers 2 biggest events combined and IW isn't even a tennis major. If the 4 slams and Sunshine Double had a 75/25 ratio instead of 50/50, then the men's earning would increase significantly. The women's game is the most lucrative women's sport out there and the likes of Serena, Venus, Sharapova, Wozniacki etc. are far more household names than most of the men outside the top 10, and in a lot of cases, outside the 'big 3/4/5'.

Plus, Edmund is not playing like a 23rd best player in the world, neither is Andreescu (but the other way), he's currently 54 this year - so if he had done a bit better at MC or particularly the AO (obviously tough draws in both, despite being a seed) then his earnings would have been a lot higher. I'm not sure how golf rankings work, but I assume it is fully based on prize money, unlike tennis, because as I say, Andreescu is currently 23rd but will have made a lot more money than most the girls above her.

Edit - that obviously took me about 20 mins to write as I didn't see Bob's post.

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Tuesday 16th of April 2019 11:26:24 AM

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
Just a quick question.

Are the tennis rankings based on the actual ATP Rankings or the race Rankings. Kyle is 23 in the rankings but most of the points that have got him there were won last year and not in the "1st quarter". A more accurate measure would be to use the race rankings where Kyle is currently at 54.

Similarly what about the golf rankings - not sure how they work but have a vague memory that the are based on the last 2 years of performance.

Definitely not race rankings Bob because on the women's side Andreescu is conveniently exactly the same ranking as Kyle, yet her prize money this quarter is $1,580,236.

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

Ah good point, should be on race ranking not year ranking. The golf rankings are just money earned to date in 2019.

36 Cam Norrie $271k vs Brandt Snedeker $1.5m

40 Dan Evans $175k vs Ryan Moore $1.39m

50 Kyle Edmund $276k vs Abraham Ancer $1.2m

222 Jay Clarke $24k vs YE Yang $31k

223 Jan Choinski $9k vs Chad Collins $29k

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Ace Ventura wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Just a quick question.

Are the tennis rankings based on the actual ATP Rankings or the race Rankings. Kyle is 23 in the rankings but most of the points that have got him there were won last year and not in the "1st quarter". A more accurate measure would be to use the race rankings where Kyle is currently at 54.

Similarly what about the golf rankings - not sure how they work but have a vague memory that the are based on the last 2 years of performance.
Definitely not race rankings Bob because on the women's side Andreescu is conveniently exactly the same ranking as Kyle, yet her prize money this quarter is $1,580,236.

And that's my point. If the purpose of the comparison is to compare earnings in the 1st quarter of 2019, it has to be done against results over the same period, otherwise the comparison is invalid.

Edit

I see B2WT has already amended the comparison.

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Tuesday 16th of April 2019 11:41:01 AM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Born2WinTennis wrote:
Ah good point, should be on race ranking not year ranking. The golf rankings are just money earned to date in 2019.

36 Cam Norrie $271k vs Brandt Snedeker $1.5m
40 Dan Evans $175k vs Ryan Moore $1.39m
50 Kyle Edmund $276k vs Abraham Ancer $1.2m
222 Jay Clarke $24k vs YE Yang $31k
223 Jan Choinski $9k vs Chad Collins $29k

It doesn't happen very often, but just occasionally I have a "light bulb" moment wink

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

And you certainly do have to take the women's game into the equation as well. The men's game will generally always be the bigger revenue driver and the main focus of the sport, certainly while the big 4 are around anyway, but if Konta can get 7.4m people in this country tuning into a quarter final, or the likes of Serena putting bums on seats wherever she goes as well as Maria, particularly in New York and China, and Osaka becoming a massive household name, signing lucrative deals left, right and centre, then naturally these sportswomen will get paid a lot more than the average sportswomen.

If there was a demand to somehow combine the Open with the Women's British Open or the US Open (golf) with the US Women's Open and they paid exactly the same amount of prize money, then I can pretty much guarantee the likes of Stuart Fleetwood's prize money would soon go down.

Ace Ventura · Tennis legend

Oh and another thing, while the ATP Race would be a more fair reflection than the ATP Rankings as discussed, it still wouldn't paint the full picture because the race rankings are points and not necessarily prize money. Being a WTA man, I'll give an example - you get 280 points for winning a WTA international (an ATP 250 equivalent) but the general prize money for winning these events (especially if not in China) is $43,000, so someone could win 4 of those in the early part of the season, collect 1120 points, but 'only' £172,000 in prize money, while someone else could win Indian Wells and pick up the 1000 points there and do nothing else for the first quarter, be lower down in the Race than the aforementioned winner of 4 titles, but still collect over a million dollars more, and I'd imagine it would be fairly similar for the 250's in the men's game.

The only true reflection would be to go through the ATP rankings or race rankings and individually check to see how much each player had won thus far, unless of course, there is a site like tennis abstract or similar which has prize money to date recorded.

https://live-tennis.eu/en/atp-ytd-prize-money-ranking

That's probably about as good as you're going to get and includes the live money for progressing in MC or being eliminated early.

-- Edited by Ace Ventura on Tuesday 16th of April 2019 01:12:27 PM

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

Ah yes that's true and Jay was probably artificially high courtesy of his IMG wildcard, which most players with his ranking wouldn't have received. Now updated so ATP Money List Ytd vs PGA Money List Ytd

36 Cam Norrie $310k vs Brandt Snedeker $1.5m

39 Kyle Edmund $297k vs Louis Oosthuizen $1.397m

86 Dan Evans $175k vs Kevin Streelman $651k

185 James Ward $34.1k vs Jamie Lovemark $145k

208 Jay Clarke $25.9k vs Cody Gribble $62k

Now the figures read even worse for "poor" tennis players.

christ · Futures level

Simple. If you want to earn more money, be good at playing golf.

Tennis players dont have any right to the same money as golf, any more than ASDA checkout folk have any right to the same salary as a doctor.

(... and I also dont think that women have an automatic right to similar pay unless they are in similar jobs, and I dont consider WTA and ATP to be equivalent, as they currently stand)

I think a lot of claptrap is talked about equality for things that arent, when examined closely, comparable.

It is interesting in and of itself how the remuneration compares, but doesnt mean that there should be any equivalence. (How much does the fourth best schoolteacher in the world get, for example?)

christ · Futures level

Why does this board automatically remove my apostrophes?

... or is it just an evil plan hatched by my iPad?

-- Edited by christ on Tuesday 16th of April 2019 04:33:01 PM

Strongbow · All-time great

christ wrote:
Why does this board automatically remove my apostrophes?

... or is it just an evil plan hatched by my iPad?

-- Edited by christ on Tuesday 16th of April 2019 04:33:01 PM

Big Brother is watching you ! - and checking punctuation smile