Scandinavian Tennis?

JonH · All-time great

Scandinavian Tennis?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Shouldn't really reply as I have no knowledge of Scandinavian tennis but surely the population figures are important - i.e. if Denmark, Norway and Finland only have about 5 million people each, one can't really expect them to produce a great number of top players??? (And Sweden is only about 10 million). Britain (with 65 million) should have 13 times more top players than any one of those countries.
Which might beg the question as to why there was a completely 'unnatural' blip before (in terms of Sweden) and why it's only now that we've settled back into a more realistic norm.

JonH · All-time great

Yes, that is probably the real point - was it Borg that caused that and if not what was it? And could or will Murray eventually have the same impact in this country?

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes another small populated nation.

Come on Cam, Jonny O, Ewan, Ewen, Aidan, Hamish, Maia, Ali et all

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Glad you're not claiming Andy

Oakland2002 · All-time great

I think small countries can do one sport well, particularly if it's fairly niche e.g. Rugby Union in New Zealand, Fiji, Western Somoa, arguably Wales but when other sports namely Ice Hockey and Football take your best athletes the going gets really tough to maintain excellence in that niche sport. A classical example would be cricket in the West Indies, the 6ft 7 quickies are still there in schools but the focus is different with greater awareness of American sports so they just focus on trying to pick up basketball scholarships in the US instead.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Concersely Scotland is beginning to really impress on the tennis front, giving up football has really helped.

JonH · All-time great

You forget how good Scotland is at curling .

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

JonH wrote:
You forget how good Scotland is at curling .

Yes, we do smile

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
JonH wrote:
You forget how good Scotland is at curling .
Yes, we do

Doh! Happy days beckon when Scottish tennis crack the Curlers, a torrent of talent as yet unleashed!

Vandenburg · Futures level

First of all, I must say the decline witnessed in Swedish tennis ranks among the biggest declines in the history of world sport.

Not sure of exact numbers but probably 10 players in top 100-150 in the late 80s and 90s, to now having 1 in the top 400.

reasons-

Tennis has changed. Tennis is now about ball bashers at the baseline and to see if you can out bash your opponent. Swedes were always about touch and finesse, it was their natural game. They have not adjusted to the new era- circa 2004-present. Why this is I do not know, is it to do with physiology??

Ice Hockey- taking the lime light.

However, the culture is far different now to it was in the 80 90s. I believe Sweden produced so many players in that era as they were ahead of the game, in terms of structure, coaches, social values, and that the rest of the world court up.

Despite producing so many greats, Tennis really is not that close to the heart of the Swedish public, for example Borg, Willander et al probably generate the same amount of interest as a Bradley Wiggins, not a Zltan Imbrihimovic, or Beckham in the UK.

As for Den, Nor and Fin, they have never had any public interest in Tennis. The majority of Finns I know had never heard of Jarko Nimm for example.

-- Edited by Vandenburg on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 03:18:18 PM

JonH · All-time great

Thanks Vandy - I guess Sweden all started with Borg and was it that one single man, that spark that triggered the Wilander, Jarryd, Edberg, Nystrom etc generation (similarly and to less effect Germany had Becker and Graf to thank for players that came after a la Stich, Kuehnen Steeb etc) and then through Johannon, Bjorkman and Magnus Norman before tailing off? And that Borg effect led to the investment in the infrastructure before the rest just caught up as you say?

I wonder if it could happen again? In ladies tennis we have Czech Republic, Romania with a relative glut of players but not on the scale of the Swedish men. In mens tennis, Spain and France have a large number but are of course much larger countries. Maybe Belgium is the nearest we have to a smaller country punching well above its weight, but again not on the scale of Sweden back in the day. Switzerland with Federer and Wawrinka showed signs of getting somewhere but no one seems to have broken through beyond these two players; ditto Serbia. Croatia is probably another example of consistently punching above its weight a la Belgium

At the time, it was quite exciting to be honest. I remember BBC One showing Borg play McEnroe live in a Stockholm Open final in the late 70's, DC Final between Sweden and Australia from Melbourne (by then it was Wilander and Nystrom), same v USA (Wilander and Sundstrom) and v Germany (Edberg and Jarryd I think) as well, and a real interest in the Swedish players generally.

-- Edited by JonH on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 03:46:34 PM

-- Edited by JonH on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 04:28:34 PM

EddietheEagle · County player

Vandenburg wrote:
However, the culture is far different now to it was in the 80 90s. I believe Sweden produced so many players in that era as they were ahead of the game, in terms of structure, coaches, social values, and that the rest of the world court up.

Once the culture is embedded, as say, it is with Spain now, France too probably, then continuity in prominence ought in theory to be sustainable as critical mass has been reached. Strength breeds strength where there is continuity and culture builds across succeeding generations.

Maybe I'm over-eulogising, but top Spanish players all seem to help one another and they congregate on their home turf too and interact rather than closet themselves away, as say Edburg did when he was living in London. That's the impression I have. Players lower down the rungs need contact and exposure with top players at clubs. It's from the elite, they draw their own inspiration and that spirit works its way down to the clubs and players at large. It also behoves the federation to create and build a national inter-club competition which stitches it all together so that all players, all ages etc form part of it and feel they belong. That's when you have critical mass. I saw this in Germany at club level where the competition structure is such that everyone feels part of it, whether you're an elite Bundesliga player or a lowly over-50s playing within a state league. It's one overall competiton where you can in theory move through the levels (if you're any good!).

Was their any connection between the Edburg and Norman generations? The link seems to break there.

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Wednesday 9th of August 2017 04:25:43 PM

JonH · All-time great

I think the link does break there. The Wilander, Nystrom, Jarryd, Edberg generation all seems quite tight and travelled and played doubles together etc but the break appeared after them. Pernfors followed them but of course took a path into the US college system before going pro which took him apart and I think the link to Johannson, Bjorkman and Norman was tenuous, possibly they were inspired by the other guys to play but never had much to do with them; Soderling was of course the last and probably an outlier...

Vandenburg · Futures level

But the point is, that the culture was never embedded, as I have said before, Borg and Wilander should have been greeted with the same media attention and fame as David Beckham, but they were not.

Some years ago, Swedes voted for the 100 greatest Swedes ever, Borg made the cut, but Willander and Edberg did not, however Sven Goran Erikson and Zlatan Imbh did, that just highlights the fact that Tennis is something sweden happened to do well at, not something they loved.

I think the thing that bothers Swedes more is what happened to all their Oscar winners from 1940-1970?

Ingrid Bergman
Greta Garbo
Anita Eckberg
Ursla Andress
Brit Eckland