British Tour 2017

CourtCrazy · Social player

RE: British Tour 2017

Oakland2002 · All-time great

I think Sean has made excellent progress this year, you are talking about a player who as a junior played two ITF junior events in Nottingham and never had a junior rank who in his first year of senior tennis he has won the British tour and has won through qualifying in a couple of futures tournaments to obtain a senior ITF rank.

Any comparison with Josh is pretty harsh, coming out of juniors Josh had travelled the world and lost to the likes of Berdych and Tsonga in junior grand slams. Then of course there is the errrr experience gained over the rest of his career as mentioned.

What is particularly striking is the massive difference in the resources ploughed into developing the two players

DidierDrogbaTralalalalaa · Newbie

Hello All,

I got told about this thread from a friend and thought I'd give you a little bit more of an insight to the week. The reason why I entered Frinton was because I get very jealous watching Wimbledon each year since I retired. I miss playing a lot and still have a very competitive personality. As I work at a school and I've broken up for the summer I have a bit of time on my hands. So it seemed logical to enter and play. As I have played a lot of French League and NCL matches this year I knew that I'm playing the best tennis since I retired, so with this in mind I knew I had a very good chance of taking the winning cheque of £600 (not bad for a few days work).

I was very surprised at how good the standard of few of the players were. My second round, quarters and semi's were tough matches. Much harder than I had anticipated. I watched quite a bit of Sean as I knew I was likely to play him. Again he was a good player, very good single handed backhand. Decent serve. I think he needs to work on his movement more, he's a strong stocky lad which made him a bit sluggish when pulled out wide. He definitely needs to improve on his volleying. Tactically I found that all of these players were very immature. For example, my first round opponent was at least 6ft 6 yet he rolled his first serve in. When I asked him why after the match he told me because he thought he needed to get a high % of first serves in. I told him that was irrelevant if getting all my returns in. I was far more worried about him banging big serves down with a less high % going in.

What I think needs to be addressed is the lack of LTA support here. Why was there not an LTA performance coach here to view the standard? Why are these players not offered squad training and support? Some of these players with a few tweaks here and there have a chance of entering a good career in tennis.

In response to some of the other comments I've read above, especially Mark1968. The highest peak of my career was qualifying for two major slams in a row, making a challenger final, winning a challenger doubles, winning a 15k in the space of two months. That is not ordinary, it's something any tennis player would be very proud of.

With regards to my current playing standard? I'd say I can still play to the level of someone 250-350 but the issue would be my fitness and match fitness. Something I'm going to nail this summer as I have a lot of free time. I may play a couple future events over the next year to get myself into pre-qualying of Wimbledon next year. As it seems to be a great opportunity for the unthinkable. But this would all have to work around my full-time school job.

But trust me when I say there is a lot of talented tennis players in this country, the issue would be with the people looking after and scouting them.

Josh G

the addict · Tennis legend

Josh, thanks for your post. I was hoping to get to Frinton (and Felixstowe this week) to watch a few matches, but work got in the way. Maybe next year !
I didn't see any LTA support at either of those venues last year, so it is certainly something that could be addressed

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Agreed. Thanks for posting Josh. Always good to get an insiders viewpoint.

I agree totally about the lack of support for so many of our players, especially those transitioning from juniors to futures and those in their early twenties. Having been to a number of futures tournaments around Europe, I have seen several GB players who with a bit of help, could move substantially up the rankings. I have also seen players from other nationalities traveling with their coaches. The difference is stark.

Are you planning at anytime to get into coaching as opposed to teaching. I remember the sudden improvement in Harry Meehan during your time working with him - a matter I spoke to him about in Faro last year. There are plenty of other "Harry Meehans" out there that would benefit from your experience.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Great post, Josh. Thank you.

Well done for giving the 6ft 6" lad the benefit of your advice about his serve - the very fact that nobody had told him that (whether an LTA coach or just a club coach) is rather baffling.

NB Bob, I think Josh did some coaching with Alexis Canter for a while.

Wish you all the best, Josh, with your 'mini' comeback - it sounds like a great plan - why not ?

DidierDrogbaTralalalalaa · Newbie

I do do some private coaching and traveling with players in my weeks off. I had two players from the event in Frinton ask if I would coach them. This is something I would look into however, I don't have base from which I coach privately and I wouldn't use the school for a number of reasons. It also has to work around my time off at the school, I have great job there with a salary and stability and I really enjoy working with the girls I coach. I could go and work in a David LLoyd and rake it in with huge hourly fees but it's not all about the money. I wanted to find the right balance with work and enjoying life. Stability is one thing tennis players need after 10years on tour. Well for me it was important...

The problem with the system in Britain is that they select their players "Rover Players" and "Aegon Players" in my time and they pump money into them from an early age. They don't pick these players on potential, they pick them on current results. In my opinion, the level of scouting is atrocious. I wouldn't be looking at rankings or results I would be looking at their game style, their attributes. If you went to Frinton and watched two days of tennis you should be able to pick out the top 5 players based on this without even looking at their rating or ranking.

My father was told by the head of junior performance when I was 14 that I would get nowhere in tennis because at the time I just went for winners off everything and played double handed both sides I was roughly ranked around 30 in the country for my age. 5years later I was an "lta player" training and being funded by the LTA and ranked 1/2 for my age. Then at 24, I was pulled into an office by Steve Martens and told that the LTA didn't believe I could be a top 100 tennis player so they were dropping all funding. I funded myself for 2/3years with prize money being filtered back into my tennis. At 27 I had a decision to make. Do I fund myself for one more year, or do I buy a property with my savings and get myself onto the property ladder. I chose the latter. A very hard and difficult decision but I felt it was probably the right one. You don't make a good enough living from being ranked 180-300 ATP. If you have no sponsorship and bills at home to pay its impossible. That's the reality of tennis and how tough it is. I have absolutely no idea how some of the Brits ranked lower than 350 manage to pay to live.

I obviously cannot talk exactly what the state of affairs by the LTA are right now as I've been out the system for a couple years. But I bet you it would be unthinkable to send a coach to watch the players at Frinton and even if they did this coach probably wouldn't know what he was looking for.

Shhh · Challenger level

Really appreciate the input Josh, two great posts to read. I think their was an impression you didn't like this board much when you were playing......was that just members on here putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 5 or was there any truth to it?

Rich · Lower Club Player

That is just terrible to read that the LTA will tell someone who is working their butt off that they are getting no more funding because they do not think that they will ever make the top 100. I know the top 100 is the magic group, that elite place that you wanna be. But, there are over 2000 players I think in the rankings so unless I am just being very stupid a player who works their way up to the top 250 and is playing challenger events is no beginner or useless player. Far from it. Not every player will have the potential to reach the top 100. But if you are ranked 250 and have the talent to crack the top 200 then why should you still not be supported. Surely it should be about wanting players to reach their maximum potential. It's not like their is not enough money in the pot. Wimbledon hand over millions each year to go back into British Tennis. I also wonder how the hell those lower ranked players afford to play and live. Their still seems zero chance for a poor kid from a run down housing estate where mum and dad don't have the money to ever succeed even if they might be good with a racquet. What do I know. Zero maybe. But no wonder Josh did a couple more years and then quit. When your own association can't believe in you and give you a helping hand then it is a sad day. Time somebody took the LTA by the scruff of the neck and gave it a damn good make over.

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Rich wrote:
That is just terrible to read that the LTA will tell someone who is working their butt off that they are getting no more funding because they do not think that they will ever make the top 100. I know the top 100 is the magic group, that elite place that you wanna be. But, there are over 2000 players I think in the rankings so unless I am just being very stupid a player who works their way up to the top 250 and is playing challenger events is no beginner or useless player. Far from it. Not every player will have the potential to reach the top 100. But if you are ranked 250 and have the talent to crack the top 200 then why should you still not be supported. Surely it should be about wanting players to reach their maximum potential. It's not like their is not enough money in the pot. Wimbledon hand over millions each year to go back into British Tennis. I also wonder how the hell those lower ranked players afford to play and live. Their still seems zero chance for a poor kid from a run down housing estate where mum and dad don't have the money to ever succeed even if they might be good with a racquet. What do I know. Zero maybe. But no wonder Josh did a couple more years and then quit. When your own association can't believe in you and give you a helping hand then it is a sad day. Time somebody took the LTA by the scruff of the neck and gave it a damn good make over.

Well put Rich. I remember reading about Jay Clarke's family not that long ago. They are not rich and at one time did not even own a car which most take for granted and with Jay not being funded at the time it was a struggle.

I believe Jay is now being funded so the pressure will have eased, not that he will need funding for long the way he is going.

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Two great posts from Josh, I'm sure we are all pleased he took the time to enlighten us about a few things. We all come on here to argue the toss about many things, with most having good ideas but you can never beat hearing the views of an 'insider' so to speak.

Along with Andy Murray and Anne Keothavong, Josh is another player to criticise the LTA coaching set up, so there is clearly still a big problem there. There's no point in me commenting on Josh's points because we know he's right.

It's clear that Josh is an articulate and a 'thinking' tennis man who's ideas need looking at by the LTA. Hopefully in the future there will be an offer of a coaching role there. Maybe if the LTA spoke more to former players about the problems they had, such as no coach a t a BT event they might be on the way to putting things right?

As regards Josh himself, definitely a good idea to get on the property ladder, it's even harder now than it was four years ago.
It's good to see him enjoying his tennis again and doing well and I think we'd all like to see him at Wimby WC play offs next year.

Good luck with all you take on Josh, you deserve the success.

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Monday 10th of July 2017 08:54:16 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Josh's posts are very pertinent obviously, and I am SO far from being pro-LTA that you'd need a telescope, but it's worth mentioning though that no other federation I know would directly fund a 24 year-old who was ranked 200 or so in the world.
Or send national federation coaches to do detection at an adult British Tour level event.
Certainly the French wouldn't (and they're a rich federation too) and from the bit I know of the Spanish, Italian and German federation, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't either.

indiana · Tennis legend

Certainly CD that's kind of what I was guessing would be the case in other countries regarding funding from stuff I've previously read, probably including from yourself.

So if Rich means supported directly financially at that stage then one could certainly just as much ask "why ?"

I think the biggest problems in this country is the lack of a really supportive tennis infrastructure and events, basically making it much more difficult for all but the highest ranked to get by. So, to be fair, in some ways we are probably not comparing like with like, certainly against such as France and Germany.

However, re the sending an LTA performance coach to watch and make assessments, I see what Josh is saying. Surely that would actually make quite a lot of sense if many young players competing, nominally adult British tour event though it may be. I would have thought there quite some point to sending at least one. Are they that busy ?

Thanks very much to Josh for taking the time to explain a number of things generally and regarding your own situation in such depth. All the best to you.

CourtCrazy · Social player

Similar to CD, I dont align myself with or against the LTA, but on the subject of them sending a coach to British Tour events, I wouldn't really see the point. The idea of 'scouting' players is an odd one. The LTA performance team will already know about all the players competing at these events, they haven't come from nowhere. I was at Frinton last week and in fairness, though some players have got some ability for sure, I'm not sure any (with maybe one exception) could justifiably say they should be funded above anyone who the LTA are currently funding. Indeed, if any of the male or female 16+ players who are LTA funded ent this event I would expect the female to have won it and the males to have maybe lost to JG in the final.

Where the LTA do need to step up and sort themselves out is not in funding or selecting players, it is in putting in place a proper tournament structure whereby players can earn their money to try and prove them wrong, or keep themselves on the tour. This event's prizemoney was £600 for the winner, but these events are few and far between. The winner of the event in Worthing the week before got £200. The runner up got £100 for 4 days work. This is ludicrous. How is it possible that 3 years ago the winner of a grade 2 BT was getting £450 and now it's less than half that?

If the LTA don't want to fund players then fair enough, but at least give them the opportunity to fund themselves.

the addict · Tennis legend

Re prize money - there are 60 men and 23 women playing at the Tier 2 in Felixstowe this week, paying £21 entry fees. No prize money unless you reach the semi-finals, and as at Worthing, it is £50, £100, and £200. So for £1743 in entry fees, the total prize money is £800. Probably one, or maybe two, organisers on site for the week, so not a lot of expenses. The LTA certainly isn't putting themselves out to help the younger players. Unsurprisingly, there are no ranked players taking part. Last year it was a premier event, with a wild card on offer for the playoffs, so the entry list was pretty good, but not for the prize money.