Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: EU Referendum - how did you vote ?
EU Referendum - how did you vote ? [30 vote(s)]

Voted Remain
60.0%
Voted Leave
26.7%
Spoiled Ballot
3.3%
Didn't Vote
10.0%


Futures level

Status: Offline
Posts: 1882
Date:
EU VOTE- IN OR OUT?


A great topic worth discussing.

 

As a passport holder of both GB and Norway my view is somewhat swayed. 

Norway and Switzerland are examples of great strong countries not in the EU, so do not have be run by Brussels, but still get everything out of the EU that everyone else does. 

 

I personally believe the UK should exit.  Europe as we know it is coming to breaking point, the sooner the uk can go solo, the better. 



__________________

World renowned expert in Nordic tennis. 



Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 33058
Date:

People should remember that we are still bound by the European Convention of Human Rights even if we exit the EU.

The Human Rights Act is not affected and, even if repealed, the Convention still binds (unless we want to withdraw from that too, which no politician has ever dared suggest).

The papers seem to confuse the ECHR and the EU all the time - Norway, of course, is a signatory of the ECHR although not in the EU and shows how it can be balanced.

However, I'm in favour of staying.

__________________


Hall of fame

Status: Offline
Posts: 9477
Date:

I'm certainly edging towards coming out, its a close call, lots of various advantages and disadvantages, but I think its worth a gamble, they don't like us anyhow.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 31112
Date:

I will really need to actually find out a lot more about the pros and cons here for this referendum unlike the Scottish one, which for me was no, just no!

I have generally been instinctively over the years stay in the club, but I am having more doubts these days, although for now will still need quite some convincing that we are better out.

I see Boris has come out for leaving. I wonder how much domestic politics is in that in that if he is in the forefront of a successful leave campign it no doubt won't do his Tory leadership aspirations much harm. Will give him the benefit of hearing his arguments In amongst his waffle.



-- Edited by indiana on Monday 22nd of February 2016 05:42:18 PM

__________________


Intermediate Club Player

Status: Offline
Posts: 256
Date:

If likes of Farage, Galloway, Gove, IDS, Redwood, Bone, Carswell, Fox, BoJo and especially Patel (wants to bring back the death penalty, ridiculous) want out of EU, says to me we should probably stay.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 15108
Date:

Tough decision. Historically I have been in favour of membership of the EU. My general philosophy on life is that "the more we work together, the more we can achieve". Of course, being an Expat that has taken full advantage of such things as freedom of movement around Europe etc, it would be partly hypocritical of me to vote to leave. Having said all that, I have begun recently to question the logic of staying in an institution that clearly has major flaws.

Interestingly, I was speaking about this to a Spanish Notary today and we spoke about one of the main issues which is immigration. Like most people, he was aware of the generosity of the UK benefits system and that many immigrants head to the UK to take advantage of that. But his attitude was very different to the perspective many in the UK. Basically his point of view was that the problem was not the immigrants, but the generosity of the system. Make the system less generous and it takes away the incentive for them to come.

I have to say that I have always felt that the benefits system is overly generous and for many it has become a lifestyle choice rather than a safety net. If the UK wants to stop immigrants getting in-work benefits until they have paid into the system for at least 4 years, then why not implement the same policy for EVERYONE, whether immigrant or British Citizen. Of course, whilst this may overcome any legal issues within the EU about treating certain citizens differently to others, it would be political suicide in the UK for any government that proposed this, let alone implemented it.

For me, one of the major errors within the EU over recent years is that it has allowed too many new members without being sufficiently strict on "economic convergence" as a criteria for entry. Many of the Eastern European countries were simply not ready to play an equal part in the EU and sought membership to take advantage of the wealthier countries that already formed part of the EU. I don't blame them for wanting and seeking membership, but the criteria for entry should have been much stricter.

As things stand, I am still in favour of staying in the EU, but at the same time, I will follow the arguments with interest and don't rule out the possibility of changing my mind.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 14550
Date:

I'm probably leaning to out, but still need more information and I studies economics of the EEC at university as one of my modules...

The EU was originally designed as a trading area, but has moved much more into a political union in recent times and this is the aspect I don't approve of.

As long as we get a decent free trade agreement, I don't think voting out will have a major impact on the country.

Those pushing to stay in are using the fact that no details about what would replace it as their major scaremongering.

If we were to go, I wonder how many more would follow suit - I suspect the Scandinavians would be the most likely to consider departing.

__________________


Futures level

Status: Offline
Posts: 1932
Date:

I am planning on voting to stay in the EU.

I don't believe the EU is in anyway perfect, and I'm not saying Britain can't cope outside of the EU (I'm sure it can), and as for whether we will be better off economically I have no real clue (though the idea that we can renegotiate all our trade deals as a single nation and make them more advantageous seems a little arrogant, and the idea that we'll suddenly be pally with India, China and Brazil all of which are slowing down and looking shaky economically doesn't sound too much more appealing than dealing with our close neighbours) . I think it comes down to our outlook as a nation. Do we want to acknowledge the fact that we are indeed European and look outwards, or want to focus on solely on our own country and still be impacted upon by decisions made by our neighbours?

What has deeply saddened me is that once again we have a debate framed in the language of fear from both sides. As with the Scottish referendum and the last general election, Cameron and the Conservatives have once again resorted to trying to scare us into following him. Instead of pointing out how the EU has impacted positively upon local communities (just think about how much EU money has been pumped into Cornwall for example, and I actually work in a building that was partly paid for by the EU Regional Development Fund), Cameron has just repeatedly stated that we will lose out financially be exiting it. Instead of saying that very few of the laws we pass come from Brussels Cameron harps on limiting access to benefits for EU migrants. Just as we were told that Ed Miliband was "a danger" to our nation because of his father (who may not always have loved Britain but at least probably paid his taxes unlike other fathers and sons for that matter) and the language used to dissuade us from a Brexit is similarly alarmist.

I also take real issue with the obsession with migrants and benefits in this country. I appreciate that an influx of people can very much alter a community. I can understand that this can be very unsettling for people who have lived within said community for a long time, but we are a nation founded on immigration. There are no ethnically pure British people. Whilst some EU migrants probably do take advantage of our benefits system (and what of the colonies of non-Spanish speaking retiree expats in Spain making use of the Spanish healthcare system having not paid into funding it?), I do feel the same can be said for lots of our own people. Rather than taking offence at EU migrants claiming benefits I could be annoyed by the fact that I don't have children, but I help subsidise other people to do so with my tax contributions, and I am unlikely to retire before I'm 80 but I shell out large sums for other people's state pensions that they have been drawing for decades. I am happy to pay tax towards all of these things. If we do vote to leave and close down our borders, people will have to stop blaming the EU and migrants for all their ills. Attitudes towards EU migrants has hardened attitudes towards migrants coming from Syria, and the language used by the tabloid press and other mainstream media outlets is awful (Katie Hopkins comparing refugees to vermin was chilling in particular). I don't like how negative and callous we seem to be becoming as a nation, and how quick we are to blame all our social ills on others.

My thoughts have become a bit of a rambling mess, but it just really frustrates me how this debate is being framed.

__________________

 



Grand Slam Champion

Status: Offline
Posts: 4750
Date:

I'm in. I think if you read too much into what might be and what might not it is almost impossible to make a rational decision.

Over the last 100 years our (as in the Uk's)influence has been mostly positive. As a small fish we will have little or no influence on world affairs, as a major player within a much bigger fish we can be a positive influence on a world worth living in.

__________________


ATP qualifying

Status: Offline
Posts: 2721
Date:

In for me ideally with Scotland in dependant from the UK.

__________________
GBJ


Club Coach

Status: Offline
Posts: 583
Date:

I'm still very much undecided.

PockyTastic makes a lot of the same points I would make.

I watched a fascinating video recently on the EU - https://youtu.be/66uCnNwLJtM - I imagine that most will be put off by the bible related discussion throughout the video but there is some really interesting historical background to the EU in amongst it all.



-- Edited by GBJ on Thursday 5th of May 2016 10:59:32 AM

__________________


Hall of fame

Status: Offline
Posts: 9477
Date:

I think it's more about sovereignty, all the migration stuff is a factor, but personally I believe we should be able to govern ourselves and all the laws we abide by should be passed through our parliament. I liked the original idea from the 70s which was based upon just being trading partners. We didn't join the Euro, thank god for that, and other than avoiding all the tariffs I don't see the point of being in the EU. For defence we're part of NATO, and that's sufficient for me.



-- Edited by philwrig on Thursday 5th of May 2016 01:10:40 PM

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 33058
Date:

Just a note, as regards sovereignty, that we will still be bound by the European Convention of Human Rights, whether we leave the EU or not.

The two are completely unrelated. Just as we are (willingly) bound by any international treaty we sign.

The ECHR was signed up to at the beginning of the 1950s (the European version of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights), and binds us to the principle of respecting fundamental human rights of all individuals (regardless of citizenship). The Human Rights Act does nothing more (or not much more) than entrenching it directly so you can take your case to a local court rather than Strasbourg.

But many think that leaving the EU will get rid of the human rights 'debacles'.

NB We could, of course, rescind the treaty but that's practically unthinkable in practice.

PS Some great comments, PockyT.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 14550
Date:

I think CD, the issue regarding sovereignty is setting our own laws and controlling our own destiny( human rights aside). The EU is so bureaucratic with so much red tape that we could do so much better if we governed ourselves.
The immigration issues could be managed as we wished - we already have controls on non-EU's and could if we wished impose controls on EU's as well.
Again this would allow our government to make decisions rather than wait for 27 countries to agree.

In terms of trade - there is a lot of scaremongering going on. It would take a couple of years to negotiate a deal with the EU and things wouldn't change and we would automatically use the other trade agreements that we are currently signed up to which will increase tariffs slightly whilst we agree deals with major nations. There may be a jobs risk, but as the leave campaign point out, UK is a huge export market for the EU and they need an agreement as much as we do.

I don't see security being affected. We seem to work independently anyway from the EU countries and we are far more advanced than the likes of Belgium.

We will be better off financially as we will not be a net contributor, although we will have to compensate areas and industries who benefit from EU grants and subsidies

I will be voting OUT


__________________


ATP qualifying

Status: Offline
Posts: 2721
Date:

The number one twitter trend just now up here is #voteconservative naturally it's a parody but just goes to show how despised the tories are in Scotland even in light of a shambolic Labour Party. Our current UK governments legacy will ride on the Brexit and may end up doing more damage than Thatcher did when she destroyed our country in the 80's.

__________________
1 2 38  >  Last»  | Page of 8  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard