General election/politics

christ · Futures qualifying

RE: General election/politics

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

People live in hope

christ · Futures qualifying

Coup Droit wrote:
People live in hope

When I was at University in Exeter one of the women's halls of residence was called "Hope Hall". The residents all used to "live in Hope".

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

christ wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
People live in hope
When I was at University in Exeter one of the women's halls of residence was called "Hope Hall". The residents all used to "live in Hope".

Lol biggrin

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

My daughters first name is in fact Hope! She lives as Hope, not just in hope.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Being reported in the Guardian that Labour have announced they would scrap the House of Lords, if elected, and will replace it with a 2nd elected chamber. I think this is a good move and probably a vote winner.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/19/keir-starmer-i-will-abolish-house-of-lords-to-restore-trust-in-politics

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes. And I'm glad that Starmer has woken up and said something, shown a presence, a policy
And the accusation of cronyism is all too true....
Good on him

Shhh · Challenger level

I would prefer reform. Quite serious reform. But the House of Lords does serve a purpose and I would be concerned if scrapped altogether. This "2nd elected chamber" for example, where will those standing come from, how would it be independent?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Shhh wrote:
I would prefer reform. Quite serious reform. But the House of Lords does serve a purpose and I would be concerned if scrapped altogether. This "2nd elected chamber" for example, where will those standing come from, how would it be independent?

I don't think there's any question of it being scrapped. The proposal is a reform.

It will be a second chamber, an upper house, like most countries have, and just like it was already, but it will be an elected upper house, not one appointed in return for favours, as currently is the case.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Shhh wrote:
I would prefer reform. Quite serious reform. But the House of Lords does serve a purpose and I would be concerned if scrapped altogether. This "2nd elected chamber" for example, where will those standing come from, how would it be independent?

I agree that there are a lot of details to be ironed out, but as you say, it does need to change. It would be interesting to see it be based on PR as opposed to FPTP, which might give new political parties a chance to get a foothold into the political system.

christ · Futures qualifying

Bob in Spain wrote:
Shhh wrote:
I would prefer reform. Quite serious reform. But the House of Lords does serve a purpose and I would be concerned if scrapped altogether. This "2nd elected chamber" for example, where will those standing come from, how would it be independent?
I agree that there are a lot of details to be ironed out, but as you say, it does need to change. It would be interesting to see it be based on PR as opposed to FPTP, which might give new political parties a chance to get a foothold into the political system.

That would have worked well when UKIP was in its pomp.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

So former Tory MP, Owen Paterson, who campaigned to have the UK end its association with the ECHR before being sacked for breaches of lobbying rules (despite Johnson's attempt to protect him by changing the rules), is now claiming the UK government breached his privacy and he is trying to sue the government - through the ECHR.

You really couldn't make this stuff up.

Shhh · Challenger level

Bob in Spain wrote:
Shhh wrote:
I would prefer reform. Quite serious reform. But the House of Lords does serve a purpose and I would be concerned if scrapped altogether. This "2nd elected chamber" for example, where will those standing come from, how would it be independent?
I agree that there are a lot of details to be ironed out, but as you say, it does need to change. It would be interesting to see it be based on PR as opposed to FPTP, which might give new political parties a chance to get a foothold into the political system.

What any new system should aim for, is that party politics plays no part in a 2nd chamber surely?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Shhh wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Shhh wrote:
I would prefer reform. Quite serious reform. But the House of Lords does serve a purpose and I would be concerned if scrapped altogether. This "2nd elected chamber" for example, where will those standing come from, how would it be independent?
I agree that there are a lot of details to be ironed out, but as you say, it does need to change. It would be interesting to see it be based on PR as opposed to FPTP, which might give new political parties a chance to get a foothold into the political system.
What any new system should aim for, is that party politics plays no part in a 2nd chamber surely?

Do you not like the current one, then?

Our lords are currently:

257 Tory

184 crossbench

168 Labour

84 Lib Dem

A few dribs and drabs

If you want to get rid of all political affiliation, shh, you must presumably be itching to get rid of the current House of Lords ?

I don't particularly mind political affiliation - I think it might be artificial to say that they all should be politically neutral

The problem is that the people are not elected. That is the key issue, to me, not their political persuasion. When Boris put Lebedev into the House of Lords, who's never been to any session, I believe, my issue is not with Lebedev's politics as such, but that he was just Boris' mate, getting payback, and not a genuine Tory person that people voted in.

indiana · Tennis legend

Kind of impossible to remove an underlying political affiliation. At least if voted in under a party that is more transparent.

I agree that the real issue is being appointed for loads of dubious reasons rather than elected.

I think t would need some form of PR in case at some time we ended up with both chambers having overwhelming majorities for one party ( either rhe same one with everything getting nodded through or different with everything being blocked ).

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 23rd of November 2022 05:09:57 PM