Rankings

the addict · Tennis legend

Rankings

indiana · Tennis legend

Great work Lambda !!

In doubles Naomi Broady has also lost SF points from that Potchefstroom W25 in February, dropping 3 further points than expected as a 15 replaces that 18. She was partnering Eden but 18 was a non counter for Eden.

Quite why all these Potchefstroom points have been expunged is another question but thanks for pointing us to the where.

Lambda · Futures qualifying

Main upward movers this week are Emma and Matilda, both to new career highs. Eden gets her missing points back.

Top 200 and main upward movers
47 (-11) Konta
62 (+5) Watson
150 (+24) Raducanu (New CH)
151 (-) Dart
170 (-) Jones
190 (+1) Boulter

443 (+5) Silva (reinstating her missing points)
820 (+19) Mutavdzic (New CH)

Aberdaberdonian · Club Coach

As it's the end of August, time for some more slightly out of focus graphs. biggrin

As has been mentioned, the points gap between Jo and everyone else, has continued to fall, although she did manage to stem the losses at one point. During August, the GB #3 has spent most of the time being passed around. At the end of July it was with Fran, then it was reclaimed by Harriet and now it's with Emma, so let's see where it ends up on the 27th Sep and once Flushing Meadows is over.

WS T25 2021-08.JPG

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

www.wtatennis.com/news/2243322/wta-announces-ranking-system-adjustments

Return to 52 week rankings by March 2022.

Points earned in 2019 will drop after 104 weeks even if the tournament does not take place

The three events in 2019 that didn't drop after 104 weeks (Indian Wells, Rabat and s-Hertogenbosch) will drop on Nov 8th 2021.

indiana · Tennis legend

Thanks kundalini.

Missing from the WTA seems to be specific mention of post US Open WTA 2020 events ( I am taking it that they are going to continue just to be removed if played in 2021 or that licence switch to another tournament thingy, and otherwise come off in 2022 ( whereas all the post US Open WTA tour 2019 points come off after 104 weeks whatever ) ?

And no mention of ITF tournement at all though they of course produce WTA ranking points. Are both the 2019 and 2020 ITF points going to continue to have 50% taken off, or move to 100% of the 2019 off ( say post the US Open ), or 100% of both 2019 and 2020 off, and when? We'd quite like to hear clearly from the WTA what's to happen going forward in respect of these points too. Hopefully the players will know! It's not just about "the ranking system at the tour level".

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

indiana wrote:
Thanks kundalini.

Missing from the WTA seems to be specific mention of post US Open WTA 2020 events ( I am taking it that they are going to continue just to be removed if played in 2021 or that licence switch to another tournament thingy, and otherwise come off in 2022 ( whereas all the post US Open WTA tour 2019 points come off after 104 weeks whatever ) ?

And no mention of ITF tournement at all though they of course produce WTA ranking points. Are both the 2019 and 2020 ITF points going to continue to have 50% taken off, or move to 100% of the 2019 off ( say post the US Open ), or 100% of both 2019 and 2020 off, and when? We'd quite like to hear clearly from the WTA what's to happen going forward in respect of these points too. Hopefully the players will know! It's not just about "the ranking system at the tour level".

Going by the current pdf of the WTA rankings (For 30 August 2021), http://wtafiles.wtatennis.com/pdf/rankings/Singles_Numeric.pdf - it lists the "Next to drop off" including Istanbul (clay) 2020 (no such event in 2019), which was one of the warm-up events for the autumn 2020 Roland Garros. The other two events scheduled for that week in 2020 were cancelled. From that I would assume WTA points won during autumn 2020 will come off after 52 weeks.

No idea about the ITF events apart from the same pdf lists ITF events as 50% drop.

The email address of Mason Trapen - Rankings, is also near the top of that pdf. It would appear that The Boiled Egg and others on TennisForum, send him messages telling him all the mistakes he's made with the rankings.

The ITF's return to rankings document is - https://www.itftennis.com/en/news-and-media/articles/return-to-international-tennis-rankings-explained/ - A quick scan didn't provide me with much of an understanding. I may have another go at a later date.

-- Edited by kundalini on Monday 6th of September 2021 02:16:02 PM

HarryGem · Club Coach

indiana wrote:
Thanks kundalini.

Missing from the WTA seems to be specific mention of post US Open WTA 2020 events ( I am taking it that they are going to continue just to be removed if played in 2021 or that licence switch to another tournament thingy, and otherwise come off in 2022 ( whereas all the post US Open WTA tour 2019 points come off after 104 weeks whatever ) ?

And no mention of ITF tournement at all though they of course produce WTA ranking points. Are both the 2019 and 2020 ITF points going to continue to have 50% taken off, or move to 100% of the 2019 off ( say post the US Open ), or 100% of both 2019 and 2020 off, and when? We'd quite like to hear clearly from the WTA what's to happen going forward in respect of these points too. Hopefully the players will know! It's not just about "the ranking system at the tour level".

At last! Long overdue adjustment. Agree it would be good to know re. ITF points. I can't see any justification for keeping 2019 points at all any longer there has been a decent number of ITF tournaments now.

Lambda · Futures qualifying

At ITF level there have been far fewer tournaments this year than in 2019. In many countries/regions there have been hardly any tournaments and lower level players would find it far more difficult to overcome travel restrictions, especially if they need to quarantine on return to their home country. They'll be a few players that would lose their ranking if they lost 2019 points because they haven't had any opportunity to play within their home country or region and don't have the ability either through local restrictions or their own finances to travel long distances to play in ITF events. It would be unfair to players at the lower end of the rankings in such countries to lose their 2019 points without some mitigation being put in place to protect their ranking status.

Between January and the last full week in September there were in 2019

Level	Carpet	Clay	Grass	Hard	Total
W100		4	3	2	9
W80		5		3	8
W60	2	17		21	40
W25	8	71	1	85	165
W15	3	119		78	200
Total	13	216	4	189	422

in 2021

Level	Carpet	Clay	Grass	Hard	Total
W100		3	1	1	5
W80		3			3
W60		20		5	25
W25	1	40		39	80
W15	1	76		66	143
Total	2	142	1	111	256

ETA country analysis: Australia held 10 tournaments to end of September in 2019, China 21 and Japan 15. In 2021 those countries haven't held any tournaments. Even in our country, we held 11 ITF tournaments in the period in 2019, but only 1 this year. Sure, our players have more opportunity to travel than players in the Asian and Oceania countries.

-- Edited by Lambda on Tuesday 7th of September 2021 08:50:22 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

Interersting Lambda.

Not unusually though the ATP and WTA choose to diverge and since Cincinnati the ATP have started week to week siphoning off full 2019 and indeed 2020 points, including for ITFs.

I would have imagined that there would be a pretty similar issue re the lack of ITF tournaments for the men though it's not something that I have looked into at all.

So arguably the ATP decision is going to be pretty harsh on players from some regions, particularly if their ITF calendar doesn't fairly soon start to get filled up much more?

It's difficult in that we want rankings to largely tie in with more recent form and not go back too far. But if you are not having much chance to play and replace counters there is some case for mitigation.

I do wish that the ATP and WTA would gsnerally try and apply similar ranking strategies much more often. Wasn't their fairly recent talk of a possible merger / takeover by the ATP?

As far as we get is sideshows like the WTA rebranding their Internationals and Premiers as 250s and 500s, and still awarding 280 and 470 maximum points respectively. Duh!

Strongbow · All-time great

It will be interesting to see how this progesses, especially now the ATP are taking off all 2019 points, I expect that the ATP numbers will eventually come down to about 1500 and 1200 for the WTA. Much where they were before the "World Tour" Fiasco. Plus ça change wink

indiana · Tennis legend

Re old WTA ranking points from ITF tournaments coming off players' rankings, in the 13/09/21 post US Open rankings the WTA, on anniversaries, have continued to just reduce 2019 ITF tournament points by 50% and to not reduce 2020 ITF tournament points at all.

It may be that the then remaining 2019 ITF tournament points will come off on 08/11/21 in line with the plans for the then remaining WTA tournaments points to come off then.

Mranwhile the ATP continue to take off all 2019 and 2020 ITF tournament points on their anniversaries

-- Edited by indiana on Monday 13th of September 2021 05:11:41 PM

Aberdaberdonian · Club Coach

So it looks like the wta website was a bit flaky this morning (ie slow to update), but its been sorted now. So while we wait for Coup, Redsquirrel or Lambda to do their weekly update smile , here's a couple of graphs in light of Emma heroics this weekend.

The first is simply Emma vs Leylah in the world ranking stakes for the last couple of years. You could say that Emma has made up some ground in the last 2 weeks. wink

ER vs LF.PNG

The next two are their rankings based on their age. In the first one, for comparison I've included Laura (the last GB "darling" of the UK press) Jo (our last GB#1) and Serena (as "the best"). In the second graph, i've included the other recent "teen sensations", that have been mentioned in the press recently.

Rather spookily Leylah's trajectory looks not too disimilar to Laura's (she will be hoping she avoids the same fate). And while Emma's success is certainly one to inspire youngsters, you could argue that Jo's was too, but in a different way. As far as i can tell, Jo didn't have a ranking when she turned 17 (first ranking at 17y 2m) and didn't make it into the 200s when she was a teenager and she still managed to make it to WR#4. In the other graph Cori's line is so short just because she is still so darn young. smile

FYI: Laura's CH was WR 27, when she was 19 1/2, so just off the edge of this graph. Little over a year later she would drop to WR923.

Jo's CH was WR4, when she was 26, so a whole 7 years later than this graph biggrin

Serena, first got to WR1, just before her 21st birthday

ER vs LF vs others.PNG

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Great graphs ! (I don't do women's - or only occasionally if there's been a gap and I think it might be useful going forward to have a record)

Love the colours....

Aberdaberdonian · Club Coach

Coup Droit wrote:
Great graphs ! (I don't do women's - or only occasionally if there's been a gap and I think it might be useful going forward to have a record)

Love the colours....

Cheers CD, smile . Maybe Lambda will be along shortly then to make Emma's +127 rise "official" wink biggrin