Scott Clayton & the "Bank of Mum & Dad"!

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Scott Clayton & the "Bank of Mum & Dad"!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Probably unpopular, but I do not think that Scott comes across well here.

I agree with his analysis, the financial calculations needed for a very top-heavily funded sport, and the implications of that. And it's great that his parents are happy to help.

But his assertion that it's not physically possible to work, on top of his training schedule, is a little galling for many other world class athletes in other sports where there is way less money than tennis and who, all, have a day job and then put in 5 hours training a day.

I know that from a logistical point of view that it's a lot harder in tennis - you need to be on the road a lot more - unlike some sports that revolve more round a couple of major championships per year. But it is possible. And I know tennis players who do it i.e. they take two months off, work a temporary job, train at the same time and then they have earned enough to go out and play three months of tournaments.

And if your prize money is going on taxis to and from the airport, why aren't you taking the bus ? Interviews are not always a true reflection but I didn't think this one did Scott all that many favours . . .

RJA · Hall of fame

I think CD is being a little bit harsh here.

On the specific points while it is clearly possible for players to take a couple of months off to work that has an obvious downside in terms of development so it would very much be a last resort. As for taxis to and from the airport, while I take the point that it may be possible to get a bus think about like this. 20 year old guy arrives at an airport in a foreign country (possibly latish in the evening), his hotel is 20 miles away and hasn't got a bloody clue where he is going, he doesn't speak the language and he has all his luggage and his tennis gear. To me jumping in a taxi seems like the more sensible option, even if it is a bit costly.

On the more general point Scott has always struck me as a pretty genuine and level headed guy and there is nothing in that interview that suggests that he feels entitled to be given anything. He simply seems to be talking about the realities as he sees them.

sherbert · Lower Club Player

I haven't read Scott's interview - but I know that a lot of players would say it would be hard to compete seriously as a professional player if you took a couple of months out to work. Since Neil lost his LTA funding - he has had no choice but to play British tours, French league and do professional hits to keep playing. I think that is the most realistic way to do it.

With regards to getting taxis/buses in other countries - I am all for doing things the cheapest way possible - and I know Neil does that where possible. However, like you say RJA, that can't always be done. Particularly if you get cheap flights that are often late nights or early mornings. On one occasion, I travelled to Czech Republic with Neil - we got the train to the town we were staying in and knew the hotel was a couple of miles from the station - it was 8 on a Sunday evening, everywhere was closed and no one around spoke English. It was also snowing! After a lot of aimlessly wandering around, we managed to get a local coffee shop owner to give us a lift to the hotel. A lot of the tournaments aren't in big cities or tourist areas and can sometimes cause issues with transport options.

goldenboy · Club Coach

its possible the taxis comment is just as a point of reference to show how little scott earns, and that he does indeed take public transport when possible!

i think its a decent article as a whole, and at least highlights to the wider public that its not all glamour!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I may well be being a little harsh - I know that. And I understand why people would think so. And they might be right.

And I also agree with goldenboy that the taxi thing might just be an off-the-cuff example.

But I still don't really buy RJA's poor, lost, lonely lad arriving story in a strange place story - it's so easy nowadays to google it all in advance and print off maps, and timetables, and whatever (of course it can sometimes go wrong).

And, anyway, for the Turkish tennis hotels, according to the ITF site, they all provide a shuttle bus which needs to be reserved and can be shared by up to three for a price of 50 euros, so 16 euros each. Of course you need to coordinate slightly but you know who's playing from the acceptance list and nearly everyone has twitter accounts now so you can contact them, free, and arrange things. You don't need to take a taxi or be wandering around alone.

Anyway, I most certainly wish him all the best and hope his shoulder injury is properly better - I've only seen him play once and he certainly seemed like a nice guy.

EddietheEagle · County player

Coup Droit wrote:
But I still don't really buy RJA's poor, lost, lonely lad arriving story in a strange place story - it's so easy nowadays to google it all in advance and print off maps, and timetables, and whatever (of course it can sometimes go wrong).

A forward-looking sports federation would have a Pro-Support office or officer to assist players with these arrangements, particularly those playing futures.

Spectator · All-time great

But as sherbert says, CD, sometimes it can't be done or is very difficult. I travel quite a bit for work and to avoid being responsible for adding yet more CO2 to the atmosphere, I try to use public land and water transport wherever possible. This has made for some interesting adventures at times, which I quite enjoy. But even so, there have been times when it just wasn't feasible or safe. In one case, I was traveling to a place that holds tennis tournaments - not for that reason - and the timing didn't permit travel overland, so I had to fly one way. By far the cheapest entry point was a city in a neighbouring country. I looked up every conceivable public transport option from the airport to the final destination and finally had to admit defeat. Of course we could have flown via a city in the country in question ... but that flight would have cost far more than the shared taxi did. And there are some places where anyone - even a fit and speedy tennis player - would be quite foolish to attempt public transport if arriving late at night.

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

I thought that this was a good interview, and paints Scott as nothing more nor less than a guy who wants to make a career of tennis. He does sound grounded, to me at least. I would also agree in part with CD about the ability to prepare for travel and commuting in a foreign country recently, although I would say that it is perhaps more common in my experience that scheduled public transport does not work out and you're left up a certain creek without a propulsion device.

RJA · Hall of fame

Coup Droit wrote:
But I still don't really buy RJA's poor, lost, lonely lad arriving story in a strange place story - it's so easy nowadays to google it all in advance and print off maps, and timetables, and whatever (of course it can sometimes go wrong).

Look, I am not a bleeding heart type who makes excuses for people. I expect young men to be able to stand on their own two feet and those who don't have the gumption to arrange such things probably won't succeed in such a brutal world as low level professional tennis. However things aren't always simple, as sherbert pointed out if you are trying to be frugal you tend to fly with budget airliners which often means arriving at inconvenient times when public transport is rare or non-existent. Furthermore if you are trying to save money on hotel fees you might arrive the day before your first round match. In which case if you land late afternoon the last thing you want is a lengthy and stressful journey. You want to get to your hotel, have a timely meal and a good night's sleep. In such cases getting a taxi is a sensible choice not an extravagance.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

FWIW my opinion is that Scott comes over like the majority of our players at this level, big dreams, plugging away and in financial difficulties. I can see what CD is driving at though as, to someone outside tennis, the comments on taxis and not working may not sit well - in the 'we'd all like money to travel round the world not working and chasing our dreams' sort of way.

I don't know Scott at all, but if he is like those players I do know at this level, he could probably produce a new improved edition of any budget travel guide. With regards to working, he does say he gives hits etc when it fits in with his schedule. There are, it is true, plenty of players who try to fund their career with more structured periods of work but I cannot think of any from the UK, male or female who have got beyond the bottom rungs doing that. It may be that they didn't have the talent or it may be that you need 100% application to tennis to get through these lower levels quickly. Scott obviously believes the latter and who is to say he is not right?

In a transcript of an interview, when the questions are edited out and tone of voice is lost, the nuances of the interview are lost as well and the questions we raise may not have been relevant if we had heard the original. I wish Scott well but, in singles, the signs aren't good. He played his first pro event in 2009 and has been playing regularly for the past 2 years yet has never got beyond the R16. Those who do go on to make any kind of living from this sport are generally regularly making QF, SF or better in nearly every 10K level tournament within a year to 18 months. I am watching Marcus' development with interest to see if an injection of funding is the key that can change this situation. I accept that the situation in doubles for Scott is more promising.

Money a the bottom level is appalling and should be changed, but it will never (and neither should it) provide a living for those who never get beyond the 1st or 2nd round. At that level it is an expensive hobby. Harsh but true.

paulisi · Tennis legend

Is Scott overtraining doing 5-6 hours a day? That seems a lot

2 hours in gym and 2 hours on court should be sufficient.

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

The Optimist wrote:
FWIW my opinion is that Scott comes over like the majority of our players at this level, big dreams, plugging away and in financial difficulties. I can see what CD is driving at though as, to someone outside tennis, the comments on taxis and not working may not sit well - in the 'we'd all like money to travel round the world not working and chasing our dreams' sort of way.
I don't know Scott at all, but if he is like those players I do know at this level, he could probably produce a new improved edition of any budget travel guide. With regards to working, he does say he gives hits etc when it fits in with his schedule. There are, it is true, plenty of players who try to fund their career with more structured periods of work but I cannot think of any from the UK, male or female who have got beyond the bottom rungs doing that. It may be that they didn't have the talent or it may be that you need 100% application to tennis to get through these lower levels quickly. Scott obviously believes the latter and who is to say he is not right?
In a transcript of an interview, when the questions are edited out and tone of voice is lost, the nuances of the interview are lost as well and the questions we raise may not have been relevant if we had heard the original. I wish Scott well but, in singles, the signs aren't good. He played his first pro event in 2009 and has been playing regularly for the past 2 years yet has never got beyond the R16. Those who do go on to make any kind of living from this sport are generally regularly making QF, SF or better in nearly every 10K level tournament within a year to 18 months. I am watching Marcus' development with interest to see if an injection of funding is the key that can change this situation. I accept that the situation in doubles for Scott is more promising.
Money a the bottom level is appalling and should be changed, but it will never (and neither should it) provide a living for those who never get beyond the 1st or 2nd round. At that level it is an expensive hobby. Harsh but true.

You've summed up my thoughts and articulated them far better than I could so I'll just say - "what he said"

A1 tennis academy · Satellite level

Coup Droit wrote:
Probably unpopular, but I do not think that Scott comes across well here.

I agree with his analysis, the financial calculations needed for a very top-heavily funded sport, and the implications of that. And it's great that his parents are happy to help.

But his assertion that it's not physically possible to work, on top of his training schedule, is a little galling for many other world class athletes in other sports where there is way less money than tennis and who, all, have a day job and then put in 5 hours training a day.

I know that from a logistical point of view that it's a lot harder in tennis - you need to be on the road a lot more - unlike some sports that revolve more round a couple of major championships per year. But it is possible. And I know tennis players who do it i.e. they take two months off, work a temporary job, train at the same time and then they have earned enough to go out and play three months of tournaments.

And if your prize money is going on taxis to and from the airport, why aren't you taking the bus ? Interviews are not always a true reflection but I didn't think this one did Scott all that many favours . . .

I agree I do feel that a lot players feel they should be funded expecting it as a given right .Many successful olympians have part time jobs so why can't 10-12 hours be squeezed in ! . We all know it's an elitist sport and that's not going to change anytime soon . In inner cities of London huge talent from poor back grounds but when asked my advice it's sadly if you can not afford to give your child a private education you can not afford to fund them to become a pro tennis player - when early enough I try and divert good talent to other sports eg football and athletics where there is more support & funding not so much of an issue .

I come from the school of thought in business & sport that the best will always break through eg Andy did not come from a wealthy background nor did Djokovic but they found away .

And interesting acid test for funding would be offering a % free loan would they accept the debt rather than a donation ? I have interestingly had a few rejections when proposed this as an option . Most small business start ups start with a loan . The entrepreneur who has confidence in himself and his venture seeks a loan . maybe that's the way LTA could go interest free loans for players ranked no5-40 17- 23 Years . If you know got to pay it back might be more of an incentive to succeed as it is for young business people . I know when I first started out first saved the money to start the business being mortgaged to the hilt certainly kept me on my toes .

-- Edited by A1 tennis academy on Friday 3rd of October 2014 10:13:44 AM