Just read the Mail article.  I can't claim to really know Oli but have come across him from time to time over the years. He's always come across as a bit of a scatterbrained and slightly immature personality, but a good-hearted lad, totally likeable and utterly devoted to his tennis.  It will be a real shame if he gives up.  IMO he has the makings of a game which will go far.  I last saw him at Wimby qualies and as always he played an attacking 'risky' game that was a bit rough around the edges but which would form the basis for something so much better.  Even before the NTC, I believe Oli changed coaching arrangements and training centres more than most.  I suspect this long term instability is the main reason he is disillusioned.  He always struck me as someone who would benefit from a long term POSITIVE coaching environment.  For all his bravado, I feel he is prone to a lack of self-confidence.  I can't know how the current crop of NTC players feel, but several who have spent some time training there since it opened have spoken to me of an overwhelming sense of negativity about the place, of nothing being good enough and of not feeling in partnership with the coaching staff.  They also say that financially, it is an unbelievable package and almost impossible to turn down.  Don't know most of these people well enough to know if there's an element of sour grapes there but certain there is more than a grain of truth.  If Oli returns, think it imperative he gets into the right training base.  Hope we see him playing again.

On the side issue re funding 18+ that seems to have developed on this thread, if ITF events paid in real terms what they paid when Henman was starting his career all those years ago this would be a non issue.  Good players, regularly reaching semis and finals would largely cover their costs as he did.  The others would fall by the wayside.  As it is, the events pay exactly the same prize money as they did way back then.

 

 

Big loss if stops now unlikely to make top 100 if stops too long .

Its a shame because comes from a generation of players that had so some much potential . Myself and nick Fulwood believe that success in ITF juniors can be a double edged sword . 

And there is evidence that early success at ITF juniors certainly historically eg Marcus made no12 world & oli a GS junior title Br can be a double edged sword complacently only follows success and careful management /mentoring at this stage could have made  all the difference .

Transition between ITF junior success and men's pro tour is proving difficult for a lot of players is this a British problem or the international norm ? 

I believe that it's normal but has been a particular problem

With our juniors in last 5-6 years . 

What I believe is missing is a charismatic leader of these young players eg A British version ( and it needs to be a man or woman from these shores ) of Nick Bolleteri  from an early age . 

The right attitudes need to be fostered in players at a early age 10 yrs old Sadly by the critical age of 18 too many of our talented players have the wrong attitudes . 

New Coaches/managers /mentors  at 21+ are then often fighting a losing battle trying make up for lossed time and change harden attitudes . 

I am fortunate enough to get close up

To most of our top 50 mens players One thing that sets Andy Murray apart from the rest is the right attitude and we all know he's definitely got his mothers genes and is father is very focused . 

Too many of our current top GB players have not got the right attitude it's simple as that !  . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stircrazy wrote:

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Interestingly, one of the players mentioned in the Telegraph article & the same age as Oli, Dominic Thiem (WR 45), came from two sets down to beat Ernests Gulbis, the 11th seed, at Flushing Meadow yesterday...

 

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 Just developing at his own pace.....

......but seriously, I don't always agree with Gary, but this attitude/seriousnous issue is critical to me. Taking tennis and professionalism seriously does NOT mean you can't have a laugh (Andy certainly does). Some of Oli's peers seemed even from day 1 as much more professional and serious (albeit very spurious data, outside in, etc) and by a coincidence those guys appear to have done very well. I remember Tim Henman making exactly this point when he gave a masterclass to a selection of Brits now in our top 10 and a few other non-Brits like Vesely and others.....he saw a stark difference in overall attitude and professionalism.

On the one hand you could simply say they are developing earlier, and a faster pace......but that would be to ignore the simple truth that we can ALL influence the speed of our own development positively and negatively by deeds, attitudes and openness to learn. Good coaching, funding and leadership helps too, of course. My strong impression is that this appears to be a greater challenge [on average] for GB players than certain other countries.....for whatever reason.......which slows down the rate of progress......which extends the financial burden......which increases the pressures, the resentment, the desperation......which, etc.

Andy appears to be a very good example of a player, who is prepared to work very hard, but does so ( and wants to do so ) in a pleasing environment with others who are in it with him, enjoy each others company and really feel in it together against the world. Now, Andy can clearly afford a big team, but ideally the principle is the same with the straight player / coach relationship.

I get the impression that with many of our youngsters, particularly at the NTC, and related to that thread, there is often not a good training environment. Various coaches are foisted on players, and it is simply their job to work with the player. If there is not a real sense of togetherness, mutually having similar goals and yes, wishing to work hard, but with enjoyment and purpose, the player can I feel get disillusioned. The training environment can be very important.

I often think of football clubs who employ foreign manager to do a job, but that manager barely speaks English. That can not help the training environment, the banter, and in turn players not enjoying the week day training environment can take that onto the pitch.

I feel that Oli has not had a great environment, and while he has real issues he has needed to address himself, obstacles have seemingly been put in his way.

We currently have a really promising group of junior girls. It is so important that they are as much as possible part of an environment that helps them be all they can be. The LTA must look at them all individually, be a support and not put unnecessary obstacles in their way, be where possible an enabler, not a dictator. It would have concerned me if too many were based at the NTC in the rumoured environment and successful development rate of recent times

Interesting stats CD. But I wonder how much these figures were swayed by some players entering early into the senior ranks and not focusing on junior tournaments.

Perhaps as really promising 16/17 years olds, they simply played senior events and didn't bother at all to play juniors at all.

Anne Keothavongs tweet was very telling, suggesting coaches were in some cases poor and not passionate about their job.

Purely randomly, and just out of interest, I did the same thing for the players ranked ATP WR 50-69 (the very top players, I think, are not always really representative of the ATP players as a whole - more a very specialised subset).


50 - Kukushkin - no junior ranking that I could find
51 - Steve Johnson - CH 660
52 - Roger-Vasselin - CH 145
53 - Ivan Dodig - CH 376
54 - Nieminen - CH 11
55 - Jack Sock - CH 22
56 - David Goffin - CH 10
57 - Querrey - CH 10
58 - Tursunov - CH 246
59 - Benj. Becker - CH 199
60 - Kyrigios - CH 1
61 - Lajovic - CH 132
62 - Gabashvili - CH 33
63 - Berlocq - CH 306
63 - Golubev - CH 101
64 - Klizan - CH 1
65 - Delbonis - CH 321
66 - Tomic - CH 2
67 - G Muller - CH 1
68 - Mayer - CH 8
69 - haase - CH 3

So, again, a reasonable number of top 5 juniors - namely 5 out of 20. But a whopping 10 out of 20 never even made the top 100 juniors.