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Post Info TOPIC: Week 17 - Great Britain F9 ($10,000) - Bournemouth (Clay)
Coup Droit


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RE: Week 17 - Great Britain F9 ($10,000) - Bournemouth (Clay)
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My last line was agreeing with you Eddie, in that no one wants to stay too long in futures. It's not a career move.

But this is nothing to do with age. i.e. if you leave college at 21 and spend a couple of years from 22-24 playing futures that's fine but you've got to move up. If you start at 18 and spend three years doing futures, you've also got to move up. (Not definitively - lots of players throw in a few futures here and there - but I completely agree with you, it's not a staple long-term diet, and it's not motivating, hence the point made before about Marcus).

But I wouldn't make accusations about drugs. A man's physical peak in terms of power and endurance is late twenties (speed and acceleration is a little earlier). It's just physiological. I've been involved in quite a lot of tournaments with random drug testing and the only two players who ever failed were two young guys from south america (both about 18). An older guy often does not 'suddenly' move up the rankings, he;s been not far off for ages, but no one's noticed. Or it's just a case of not ever being that low but it all coming together - the longer you play the more likely that is to happen. i.e. James Ward has beaten top 50 players. He's come really close to beating other top 50 players on many occasions. But his CH is 137. If he managed to put a few of those victories (and near vicotiries) back to back, he'd suddenly zoom up 70 places. It's not 'probable' but it's perfectly possible, he's not far off. And it's nothing to do with drugs. Players like Dustin Brown and Stephane Robert are perfect cases in point.



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EddietheEagle


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I'm not talking about James Ward, Coup. He's been languishing around his level for ages, more someone shooting from 1200 to 300 or better in months.

I don't make accusations either; more than one ATP player has spelt these things out to me. I just listen.

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Coup Droit


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EddietheEagle wrote:

I'm not talking about James Ward, Coup. He's been languishing around his level for ages, more someone shooting from 1200 to 300 or better in months.

I don't make accusations either; more than one ATP player has spelt these things out to me. I just listen.

 I'm not saying it never happens - yes, there is a bit of cheating wherever. Although I do think that in technical ball sports it's less 'useful' than in endurance sports (cycling) or sprinting, say. But, you're right, it can obviosuly happen.

But Marcus made the jump you're mentioning, so did Katy Dunne, and many others, in particular those coming on the scene a little later, i.e. post college. It's not drugs, it can be just circumstances coming together in a certain way. 



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EddietheEagle


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Bournemouth clay is a nice tournament for a GB player to win, Gasquet and Monfils being recent past winners, Gasquet as a prodigy (sixteen, I think). Monfils stuck out like a sore thumb. I think he was ranked over 800 at the time but comfortably outclassed those in the 200s.

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steven


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To add to what CD has just said, Marcus always seems to have had the potential to do much better but he seemed (to an outsider like me) to drift in and out of tennis over the years - possibly because he couldn't afford to pursue it anything like full time or because he wasn't motivated enough or a combination of the two, I'm not sure. It's not hard to imagine why having someone (who's not the LTA or family) funding him, pushing him on and believing in him could have motivated him to start achieving more. So I'm pretty sure the only thing it's got to do with drugs is the money generated from the (legal) drugs A1 sells

That doesn't mean I don't think there are any tennis players who are on drugs - to think that would be naive in the extreme - though I agree with CD too that, thankfully, they are unlikely to be as effective a route to the top of the game as they can be in less technical sports.

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html
steven


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Tom and Mark are 5-5 in the 3rd - I can't remember the last time a singles match in a GB Futures event was still going at 10 pm! (I guess it requires a combination of an outdoor event at a venue with floodlights and the last match of the day being the longest)

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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html
Stircrazy


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R1:  [non-GB] Julien Cagnina & Kevin Griekspoor (BEL/NED) CR 2078 (1500+578) defeated Jannis Liniger & Vijay Sundar N. Prashanth (SUI/IND) CR 1829 (970+859) by 1 & 2
R1:  Rob Carter & Ryan Peniston UNR defeated James Ryan & Edward Taylor UNR by 3 & 4
R1:  Jathan Malik & Keelan Oakley UNR defeated Sam Hutt & Myles Orton CR 2370 (1405+965) by 7-6(2) 7-6(2)



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steven


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Finally, just after 20 past 10 ...

L32: (1) Marcus Willis WR 361 lost to Kevin Griekspoor (NED) WR 721 (CH 663 in Oct) by 5-7 7-5 6-1
L32: (Q) Tom Allen WR 1686 beat (Q) Mark Whitehouse WR 2032 by 6-2 6-7(2) 7-6(4)
L32: (WC) David Porter WR 2186 lost to Tobias Simon (GER) WR- 1040 (CH 998 earlier this month) by 6-1 7-6(0)
L32: Jack Carpenter WR 845 lost to (6) Gavin van Peperzeel (AUS) WR 568 (CH 543 in Mar) by 6-4 7-6(6)
L32: (4) Liam Broady WR 447 beat Jonny O'Mara WR 950 by 4 & 3
L32: (WC) Adam Skalsky UNR lost to N. Vijay Sundar Prashanth (IND) WR 831 (CH 501 last Apr) by 4 & 0
L32: Robert Carter WR 828 beat (Q) Adam Thornton-Brown WR 1372 by 4-6 6-4 7-5
L32: (7) Josh Milton WR 578 beat Simon Ede (AUS) WR 957 (CH 830 last Jun) by 3 & 1
L32: Toby Martin WR 856 beat (5) Maverick Banes (AUS) WR 550 (= CH) by 4 & 3
L32: Jathan Malik WR 986 beat (Q) Jake Eames (AUS) WR 1295 (CH 1105 in 2010) by 4 & 3
L32: (Q) Lewis Burton WR 805 lost to Pirmin Hänle (GER) WR 823 (CH 526 in 2009) by 7-6(2) 6-4
L32: (8) Luke Bambridge WR 609 beat (WC) Adam Glynn UNR by 3 & 5
L32: (Q) Myles Orton WR 1164 beat (WC) Sam Hutt WR 1223 by 4 & 2
L32: (2) Brydan Klein WR 406 beat (Q) Nicolas Rosenzweig (FRA) WR 1166 (CH 687 in 2012) by 4 & 2

L16: (Q) Tom Allen WR 1686 v Kevin Griekspoor (NED) WR 721 (CH 663 in Oct)
(non-GB): (6) Gavin van Peperzeel (AUS) WR 568 v Tobias Simon (GER) WR 1040
L16: (4) Liam Broady WR 447 v N. Vijay Sundar Prashanth (IND) WR 831 (CH 501 last Apr)
L16: (7) Josh Milton WR 578 v Robert Carter WR 828 (*)
L16: Toby Martin WR 856 v Jathan Malik WR 986 (**)
(non-GB): (3) Julien Cagnina (BEL) WR 446 v Pirmin Hänle (GER) WR 823
L16: (8) Luke Bambridge WR 609 v (Q) Myles Orton WR 1164
L16: (2) Brydan Klein WR 406 v Kamil Majchrzak (POL) WR 796 (CH 789 earlier this month)

(*) Josh v Rob H2H 2-0 - both close in GB Futures (5 & 7 in 2013, 3 sets in Shrewsbury this year)
(**) Toby v Jathan H2H 0-1 - Jathan won 6-4 7-6(8), Wirral 2013



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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html
indiana


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Hmm, quite a bit of intertwining going on re essentially separate issues.

We don't really need to again discuss the alleged "rule of thumb" about generally needing to be top 300 by age 18 if you are going to make the top 100, because that has been shown to be untrue.

My point was that it may be rather unwise to stay too long in futures, especially the 10K level, having had a fair amount of success and being capable of playing at a higher level. How much a player can remain focussed depends on the individual, from say Evo level upwards. But it has to be a risk and there is a general career development issue anyway. Yes, playing futures and progressing is generally naturally a younger player issue, but let's not confuse issues or indeed non issues.

Re drugs, is it an issue at all ? Probably yes. Is it widespread ? I doubt it, but clearly have no real idea. I do think there should be more rigorous testing, particularly blood testing and / or any other modern efficient methods.

But that again is a bit of a tangent to general sudden major ranking rises. We are familiar with Marcus's basic story, essentially as Steven set out, and fully accept that. I suggest it then unwise to make too many assumptions about players we are much less familiar about, of whatever age. A large reason why top players are in general getting older is the increased physicality of the sport, which quite naturally suits more mature players.

Whatever, I think we are generally agreed - don't spend too long in futures if you have the ability ( and the mindset ) that means you should move on.

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paulisi


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Order of play indicates they a just playing doubles today and presumably indoors given the forecast.

I assume they will play two rounds of singles tomorrow as the forecast is much better.

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Stircrazy


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R1:  Pirmin Hänle & Kamil Majchrzak (GER/POL) CR 1663 (565+1098) defeated (4) Toby Martin & Jonny O'Mara by 6-3 2-6 [10-6] bleh
R1:  Jake Eames (AUS) & Brydan Klein CR 1768 (1548+220) defeated Jack Carpenter & Adam Skalsky UNR by 5-3 retired cry

*****

QF:  (1) Lewis Burton & Marcus Willis CR 493 (255+238) defeated Julien Cagnina & Kevin Griekspoor (BEL/NED) CR 2078 (1500+578) by 4 & 4
QF:  Jake Eames (AUS) & Brydan Klein CR 1768 (1548+220) defeated (2) Luke Bambridge & Liam Broady CR 714 (382+332) by 4 & 3 bleh



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paulisi


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Order of play suggests two lots of singles matches tomorrow and then doubles semi finals. 10am start.

It could be survival of the fittest - Brydan, Rob C may have 3 matches

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Stircrazy


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Outstanding results:

R1:  (3) Maverick Banes & Gavin van Peperzeel (AUS/AUS) CR 790 (471+319) defeated Peter Bothwell (IRL) & Adam Glynn UNR by 7-6(6) 6-3

******

QF:  Rob Carter & Ryan Peniston UNR defeated (3) Maverick Banes & Gavin van Peperzeel (AUS/AUS) CR 790 (471+319) by 6-7(6) 6-3 [10-7] biggrin
QF:  Pirmin Hänle & Kamil Majchrzak (GER/POL) CR 1663 (565+1098) defeated Jathan Malik & Keelan Oakley UNR by 6-7(0) 7-5 [10-7]

****

SF:  (1) Lewis Burton & Marcus Willis CR 493 (255+238) vs Rob Carter & Ryan Peniston UNR
SF:  Pirmin Hänle & Kamil Majchrzak (GER/POL) CR 1663 (565+1098) vs Jake Eames (AUS) & Brydan Klein CR 1768 (1548+220)



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Bob in Spain


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Off and running in sunny Bournemouth today.

Jathan off to a fast start with the first 3 games before Toby gets 1 on the board. Jathan leads *3-1
Brydan on serve at *1-2
Josh M up a hold against Rob C and leads 3-1* So far, 3 breaks and 1 hold.

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Bob in Spain


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Jathan takes the 1st set off Toby 6-3. Fine margins though. On BPs, Jathan 1/4 and Toby 0/4. There in lies the difference.

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