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Post Info TOPIC: Week 10 - ATP Masters 1000 - Indian Wells CA, USA (ex-AM) - Hard


Tennis legend

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RE: Week 10 - ATP Masters 1000 - Indian Wells CA, USA (ex-AM) - Hard


I read on Wikipedia that Greg Sharko is the Director of Media Relations and Information for the ATP and is sometimes called the "stats guru".

So, will be interesting...

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Spectator wrote:

Given past form, I would always assume Steven knows best, but (taken from Jon Wertheim's column), this is apparently what "Sharko" thinks will happen:

How does it work when a lucky loser replaces a seed who has a bye, as was the case with James Ward taking Juan Marin del Potro's spot at Indian Wells? Does the lucky loser automatically get the ranking points and money from a first-round win?
-- Miles Benson, Hudson, Mass.

Here's the ATP Tour's Greg Sharko: "Ward will receive 10 first-round points, since he lost in his opening match with a bye, plus 16 lucky-loser points for a total of 26 points. He will receive second-round prize money of $16,000."

Read More: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20140312/tennis-mailbag/

Steven's explanation makes more sense ... but it will be interesting to see what emerges next Monday.


I'd like to be wrong here but unfortunately I'm not. The ATP rules say that Masters FQR losers only get 8 points if the main draw has more than 56 players in it. Further evidence is that the same thing happened to Roger-Vasselin at Miami last year (i.e. LL in place of a seed with a bye in R1 then lost in R2 http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2013/403/mds.pdf) and he got 18 points for it in total (see http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ro/E/Edouard-Roger-Vasselin.aspx?t=rb)

In defence of fellow statto Sharko, it's the kind of mistake I find it all too easy to make too - you concentrate on the main issue (i.e. does James get R1 or R2 points) then think at the last moment that you'd better mention the points gained in qualifying too, auto-pilot says 16 for a Masters FQR loss (which it is for all of them except Indian Wells and Miami), you're in too much of a hurry to think it through and bingo, you've made yourself look a bit silly.

I actually did something similar when someone on Twitter asked me how many points James would get if he won and I said 8+45 if he won but suddenly thought I'd better add that he wouldn't get R2 loser points if he lost, just the 8 FQR points. Fortunately in that case, it only took a few seconds for my face to hit my palm and the reply tweet to get deleted and replaced. wink Not sure whether I was subconsciously treating him as a main draw WC or just forgetting that R1 losers in Masters get points.

Plus of course, even though the stats are part of Sharko's job whereas I do them just for fun, it's inevitable that the points gained by a 'random Brit' will get more of my/our attention than they get of his.

Of course, Sharko is in charge of the rankings, so if he feels like covering up his error by giving James an extra 8 points on Monday, it'll be more than my life's worth to point out the error ... wink

 



-- Edited by steven on Thursday 13th of March 2014 07:30:22 PM

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All-time great

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Yes, as noted - and that was neither sarcasm nor a platitude - I generally assume that you know best. And your explanation made more sense (as did your corroborating evidence from last year). But I did think it was interesting that the official person in charge had got something different .... and wait with bated breath to see what emerges.

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I'm pretty confident Steven is right. Seems that Sharko has merely forgotten that LL and Q points for IW and Miami are less than the rest of the Masters.

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James Ward received 18 ranking points for Indian Wells.

Steven 1 Mr Sharko 0 :)

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