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Post Info TOPIC: The curious case of Victor Troicki


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The curious case of Victor Troicki


I am one of the most aggressively unsympathetic people imaginable for drug cheats in sport. And have posted on this forum on the topic in the past.

Athletes are responsible for the substances in their body, and I rarely accept the traditional argument that illegal PEDs have somehow found there way into someone's system by accident......such as a herbal remedy, which someone else gave them. And I also have no sympathy for athletes who manage to avoid tests by creative travelling.

But there's something very odd about this Victor Troicki case, and I find myself immediately siding with the player.

It's one thing to try to avoid a test, but in his case he was actually with the tester and had already given a urine sample. He claims to have been rather unwell, and this doesn't seem to be in dispute. What also seems to not be in dispute is that he returned the very next morning to have his blood taken. Some conversation clearly took place because if not, how come he gave blood to the very same tester the next day.....both the urine and blood samples were completely clean by the way. Since refusing to take a test is regarded the same as taking one and being found positive.....and all professional athletes know this........there is absolutely no way Troicki would have simply refused a test without some prior assurance......and he certainly wouldn't have bothered to turn up for a blood test the next day if by "refusing" the day before he was already guilty!!!

This smacks of someone from the drug testing team having given Troicki the wrong steer on what he could and couldn't do, after the Serb complained of being unwell, and then covering themselves.

Even the press communique from the ITF is confusing, but it implies clearly that some kind of conversation DID take place between Troicki and the tester about whether he could or couldn't avoid or postpone the blood test. As a result of that conversation, Troicki avoids his test until the next day......and is found guilty for doing so!!!! I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but it does seem fairly clear what happened here!!!    

http://tennisconnected.com/home/2013/07/25/viktor-troicki-responds-to-suspension-announcement/



-- Edited by korriban on Friday 26th of July 2013 09:00:43 AM

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If you are well enough to give a urine sample you are well enough to give a blood sample.

The two show up completely different things and of course substances last longer in your blood than in urine. It doesn't need to be performance enhancing, he might have been having too much fun out in Monte Carlo...


On the basis the ITF have handed out 2 years bans to players who have had substances go into their system from a muscle rub which the player was advised did not contain any prohibited substances and the ITF confirmed gave no performing enhancing effects whatsoever, they need to come down hard in the first instance (they did reduce the ban by 6 months, and if it's backdates he's already served some of it).

If VT does appeal, it will all come out in the wash. I agree something doesn't feel right though - it is possible that what the drug's officer said was correct and that VT misunderstood. That seems to be what the ITF are saying:-"the tribunal concluded that the DCO told Mr Troicki that she could not advise him as to whether his reason for not providing a blood sample was valid, and that no such assurances were given by her."

 Either way, I'm not sure it will help his cause much to say the person is lying and trying to cover their own back.



-- Edited by PaulM on Friday 26th of July 2013 10:50:15 AM

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I agree RJA. Ultimately if he was clean they he's being banned for stupidity. It would be harsh but the ITF needs to set a precedent here or else cheaters will just dope, refuse a blood test if they are about to get caught and happily take the shorter, say 6month, ban. No deterrent at all.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the fact he gave a clean blood sample the next day is totally irrelvant. If he was doping, that's more than long enough to get anything flushed out the system. Cyclists could show clean tests just by delaying the test by half an hour longer.

My view, he wasn't doping, he's just made a massive mistake.



-- Edited by PaulM on Friday 26th of July 2013 11:00:52 AM

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I too was completed baffled by this until I read the full transcript of the tribunal's decision this morning, which is at http://bit.ly/13h92Xq

I have a similar extreme needle phobia and can imagine (especially if I was already feeling ill) rational thought completely going out the window in the blind panic such things induce in me (even writing about this now is making me feel a bit nauseous), leading me to wishfully clutch at any hint that it might be ok to avoid the test even if it was far from a complete assurance, or even if the hint was not really any kind of assurance at all.

So I suspect the tribunal's best guess as to what really occurred may be right and it's hard to see how they could have let him off without creating loopholes for real cheats to exploit. But I also feel desperately sorry for Viktor.

Feeling sorry for him does of course assume that he wasn't doping and trying to avoid the test for that reason, but the phobia coupled with illness are enough to explain the panic/irrationality aspect in my opinion.



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RJA


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It is a curious case but I have no sympathy for Troicki. At best he has been incredibly stupid and no player should be taking any chances when it comes to drug testing. Tennis has been way too relaxed with regards to doping and hopefully this is a sign that things are changing.

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I sort of agree with everyone that he was stupid. At the end of the day, if he was indeed clean, why even muddy the waters.....however ill you may have felt.

And it's true that half a day might be enough for drugs to exit the system, so for me, if he did ask (naively) for a postponement, the response should simply be NO....and then the matter is dealt with. The fact that the tester clearly did NOT simply say "no" is baffling IMO. 

The bit that concerns me is that some sort of conversation clearly DID happen (as opposed to "No you can't Mr T"), and that he DID give his blood to the same tester the next morning.....so clearly that arrangement must have been part of the discussion......why would either VT or the tester have gone to the trouble of giving/taking his blood the next morning, when the "crime" had already been committed.

If the tester just says NO, all of this is avoided.....and he's either guilty or innocent. 



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I struggle to see how if he was so terrified he was perfectly fine to give the sample the next day, and has given several blood tests in the past without causing such a fuss.

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I realise that seems a bit suspect, but I also know from experience that circumstances can feed the phobia (and associated panic/irrationality) sometimes and lessen it just about enough at other times so I didn't find myself struggling to understand that at all. Yet I can see why someone who hadn't experienced it themselves would find it suspect.

One other thought - if the doctor was as experienced as is claimed, surely she should have been aware of the way people with an extreme phobia can react and made it absolutely clear to him that it wasn't acceptable to miss the test rather than leaving any room at all for doubt, however irrational that doubt might have been. I'm not saying she had a responsibility to do this and it's the kind of thing you might expect an inexperienced doctor to fail to understand, but after 15 years, you would think she would have known what might be going on in his head and acted accordingly.

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RJA


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I can only reiterate that I have no sympathy at all for Troicki. He is a professional athlete and as such dealing with drug tests is not a minor inconvenience but a vitally important part of his job. If he doesn't know the rules then he deserves to be banned for 18 months due to his own apathy and stupidity.

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I also read the full transcript. I'm amazed at the coach - not fully knowing the rules? Really???

I was wondering if, as he was feeling ill, he took some medicine that he was not sure was allowed and put off the blood test for that reason.

Whatever the truth of it all, I don't see how the tribunal could come to any other decision. It would be setting too great a precedent for the future to allow him to refuse the test. I can understand ones like the Belgian cases who were not there to take the test because of possible misunderstandings, but he was actually there and would not take the test. He may well have a genuine phobia but it would be too easy surely for other players to claim they have such a problem when they hadn't. If such a test is part of your job you have to bite the bullet and get on with it. Or find another job.

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Bearing in mind that VT hasnt been through his appeal process yet - what's your take on the Rusedski case when he tested positive for Nandrolone but then appealed and was cleared after saying an ATP trainer could have given him contaminated supplements ?



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This is a really disappointing story on so many levels.

Troicki has to be prepared to give blood and urine as requested - he might not like it but it's part of his job.
I'm sure he finds the money, fame and success that his career brings him pleasurable this is the 'downside'.

The ability of the Doctor to deal with the situation and the advice of Troicki's team is certainly debatable.
But this means the tribunal had no choice in the matter.

A very unsavoury and disappointing incident whatever way you choose to interpret it.



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Whether or not the tribunal has to make this decision to avoid setting a bad precedent (and it does seem as if there are enough peculiarities to this case that it would be possible to make a different decision without setting a general precedent), I do have sympathy for Mr Troicki. Yes, perhaps he was foolish. But (a) if he genuinely believed that the doctor was advising him that his position was permissible and (b) his coach concurred, his actions are comprehensible. And let's be realistic: this is a man effectively losing his job for 18 months when he is at a point where he can earn a lot of money and glory ... neither of which possibilities will last forever. Granted, he has already made more money this year than many people will make in a decade or two, but it's still a hard thing to have to undergo.

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There are rumours going round that Cilic failed a drugs test in Munich

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This is a very good article walking through the decision

tennis.si.com/2013/07/26/viktor-troicki-itf-suspension-appeal-doping/

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