GB Men Year to date (2011)

The Magician Santoro · Top national player

GB Men Year to date (2011)

Smidster · Challenger level

Good stuff...Thanks for putting this together

One suggestion for the future would be to put the points earned as opposed to same stage last year to see if someone is progressing or not.

The Magician Santoro · Top national player

Good idea will add that soon

Vandenburg · Futures level

good idea of a thread but it shows how crap are players have been

steven · Tennis legend

Thanks for this, TMS, you're absolutely right about needing to take the strength of opponents into account for win/loss records to become at all meaningful. As you've noticed with Josh Milton, averages can be a bit misleading too.

One way of getting around that (which I assume would be easy enough to do using the data you have already got) would be to use the median instead of the mean - that would solve problems like the one you noticed with Josh Milton and enable you to include matches against unranked players in your calculations without having to do a separate note about them. I think it would give a better view than the mean (especially when you are showing the highest/lowest too) in most scenarios.

Re. points earned as opposed to the same stage last year. You're probably already aware of this, but just in case you aren't (since it wouldn't be fun to have to duplicate the effort), the easiest place to get that data is from the YTD pts column near the right-hand side of the GB top 25 table - e.g. http://www.freewebs.com/britishtennis/gbtop25m/2011wk09.htm for week 9 this year then just change 2011wk09.htm to 2010wk09.htm to get last year's figures. That figure includes all points gained even if they haven't gone on the rankings yet and even if they aren't part of the player's best 18 scores.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

would it be a good idea to use opponents rank at the end of the week as a truer indication of form. you could lose to a guy who's playing a blinder that week and goes to the final etc so would see massive ranking jump the following week.

steven · Tennis legend

Count Zero wrote:

would it be a good idea to use opponents rank at the end of the week as a truer indication of form. you could lose to a guy who's playing a blinder that week and goes to the final etc so would see massive ranking jump the following week.

It might (though it would have to be the following week in the case of Futures), but I imagine that would make it much harder to produce the stats - I don't know where TMS is getting the rankings from, but on our threads and on the ATP site, the rankings shown are those when the matches were played.

-- Edited by steven on Friday 4th of March 2011 12:13:18 PM

Count Zero · Tennis legend

come on Steven, it's not much to ask. i'm sure you could do it :)

steven · Tennis legend

Very funny

The Magician Santoro · Top national player

Thread updated with Steven & Smidster's suggestions included, the median does give a better indication on the calibre of player ou guys have been beating and losing too then the average and the thread now shows if our guys are improving, declining or stagnating compared to last year.

Sorry Count i see your thinking behind the ranking issue but i'm afraid it will take me too much time to keep on track of each opponents ranking the next week esp. with the futures points not being added till the following week and i have the dilemna of a said player having futures points from the last week's tournament in which they beat our guy and then for example also have challenger points in the same week to add on etc etc.

Spectator · All-time great

All very helpful. Do think, though, that for Bogdanovic the loss ranking at present is somewhat skewed, given that he only lost two matches and Jack Sock was pretty seriously underranked when they played. But that kind of thing is inevitable.

-- Edited by Spectator on Friday 4th of March 2011 08:10:43 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

The Magician Santoro wrote:

Thread updated with Steven & Smidster's suggestions included, the median does give a better indication on the calibre of player ou guys have been beating and losing too then the average and the thread now shows if our guys are improving, declining or stagnating compared to last year.

Thanks for this MS, will be interesting to see it develop over time.

I do see Steven's point re the median, but I like the mean too. It will be weighted up or down by a few wins or losses against really higher or lower players, and it is good to show particularly the former in the mean. OK, some opponents may not deserve to be so lowly ranked like Spectator mentions Sock for Bogdanovic and soon the median will not count that ( except as being a loss below the median ) and the mean to a steadily lessening extent.

If it's not too much, can we have both the mean and the median since I think both have separate merits and probably arguable which is better / more interesting here, and in time looked at together will show more of a story ?

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 4th of March 2011 09:51:21 PM

Count Zero · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
for Bogdanovic and soon the median will not count that ( except as being a loss below the median ) and the mean to a steadily lessening extent.

it will as next up for boggo is a long unbeaten streak

The Magician Santoro · Top national player

Average Win & Loss ranking's now added as per Indiana's request

The Magician Santoro · Top national player

Correct to the start of Week 10, Main shifts are the DC guys and also Dan Cox in the US.

James Ward 2011 Average ranking: 210
YTD Win-Loss: 4-7
Median Win Ranking: 249
Average Win Rankig: 218 (1 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Victory: Ball WR 159
Median Loss Ranking: 213
Average Ranking Loss: 300
Highest Ranking Defeat: Mayer WR 37
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Sancic WR 858
2011 Points:15 2010 Points: 26

Alex Bogdanovic 2011 Average ranking: 316
YTD Win-Loss: 6-2
Median Win Ranking: 520
Average Win Ranking: 507
Highest Ranking Victory: Yoo WR 383
Median Loss Ranking: 717
Average Loss Ranking: 717
Highest Ranking Defeat: Sajous WR 561
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Sock WR 874
2011 Points: 19 2010 Points: 61

Daniel Cox 2011 Average ranking: 324
YTD Win-Loss: 11-6
Median Win Ranking: 1007
Average Win Ranking: 904 (3 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Victory: An WR 633
Median Loss Ranking: 408
Average Loss Ranking: 461 (1 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Defeat: Kelly 373
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Lukacs UNR
2011 Points: 28 2010 Points: 2

Josh Milton 2011 Average ranking: 368
YTD Win-Loss: 6-4
Median Win Ranking: 695
Average Win Ranking: 842
Highest Ranking Victory: Cox WR 328
Median Loss Ranking: 374
Average Loss Ranking: 579
Highest Ranking Defeat: Guez WR 140
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Fuscovics WR 1431
2011 Points: 18 2010 Points: 2

Daniel Smethurst 2011 Average ranking: 462
YTD Win-Loss: 11-5
Median Win Ranking: 569
Average Win Ranking: 721 (2 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Victory: Monroe WR 347
Median Loss Ranking: 436
Average Loss Ranking: 439
Highest Ranking Defeat: Bogdanovic WR 290
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Gombos WR 578
2011 Points: 23 2010 Points: 10

Chris Eaton 2011 Average ranking: 559
YTD Win-Loss: 9-5
Median Win Ranking: 512
Average Win Ranking: 568
Highest Ranking Victory: Kontinen WR 273
Median Loss Ranking: 410
Average Loss Ranking: 396
Highest Ranking Defeat: Walter WR 302
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Basic WR 519
2011 Points: 20 2010 Points: 31

Jamie Baker 2011 Average ranking: 390
YTD Win-Loss: 6-5
Median Win Ranking: 959
Average Win Ranking: 965
Highest Ranking Victory: Rice WR 487
Median Loss Ranking: 338
Average Loss Ranking: 419
Highest Ranking Defeat: Dustov WR 302
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Roefelse WR 732
2011 Points: 9 2010 Points: 24

Josh Goodall 2011 Average ranking: 412
YTD Win-Loss: 6-4
Median Win Ranking: 650
Average Win Ranking: 798
Highest Ranking Victory: Dupuis WR 480
Median Loss Ranking: 376
Average Loss Ranking: 405
Highest Ranking Defeat: Mekitic WR 293
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Sakharov WR 574
2011 Points: 11 2010 Points: 19

Daniel Evans 2011 Average ranking: 394
YTD Win-Loss: 3-5
Median Win Ranking: 809
Average Win Ranking: 661 (1 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Victory: Slabinsky WR 514
Median Loss Ranking: 304
Average Loss Ranking: 436
Highest Ranking Defeat: Sidorenko WR 294
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Authom WR 816
2011 Points: 4 2010 Points: 20

David Rice 2011 Average ranking: 473
YTD Win-Loss: 5-5
Median Win Ranking: 1132
Average Win Ranking: 877 (1 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Victory: Martin WR 421
Median Loss Ranking: 665
Average Loss Ranking: 533 (1 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Defeat: Kumantsov WR 362
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Tahir UNR
2011 Points: 5 2010 Points: 4

Liam Broady 2011 Average ranking: 925
YTD Win-Loss: 5-3
Median Win Ranking: 598
Average Win Ranking: 547 (1 Unranked)
Highest Ranking Victory: Coco WR 420
Median Loss Ranking: 518
Average Loss Ranking: 570
Highest Ranking Defeat: Bruges-Davi WR 346
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Varga WR 846
2011 Points: 11 2010 Points: 0

Alex Ward 2011 Average ranking: 487
YTD Win-Loss: 4-4
Median Win Ranking: 644
Average Win Ranking: 677
Highest Ranking Victory: Gawron WR 364
Median Loss Ranking: 423
Average Loss Ranking: 398
Highest Ranking Defeat: Bogdanovic WR 290
Lowest Ranking Defeat: Souto WR 475
2011 Points: 4 2010 Points: 14