But why oh why do they send all the young Brits to places like this - do they think they need to get used to losing in qualifying and failing to pick up ranking points as young as possible?
Maybe the idea is that in a Spanish Future with a 128 qualifying draw, unranked players are more likely to get into qualifying and there are likely to be more winnable matches than in a 64 qualifying draw.
In that case though, I think it would make far more sense to send a party like this to a Future that's likely to have a very weak qualifying entry, since then there might be just as much chance of them winning at least one match but there would also be a realistic chance of some of them getting a ranking point as well, which would then mean that if they really wanted to get experience of Spanish Futures, they would havea much better chance of being seeded in qualifying when they entered them.
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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!
Personally I do not see the problem with this at all,
Previously we have moaned Brits cant play on clay, therefore our youngsters are gaining exposure to different surfaces for a start. Secondly while they can play on clay in junior events they are getting the chance to play against different playing types. No doubt they will be up against some spainards that will be willing to grind away all day to win the point. Something a lot of youngsters wont or cant do. To beat these types will install patience.
If you speak to the LTA I bet the goal here is not ranking points this would be a bonus. Right now it is all about developing these young players all round games. This experience in the long run is extremely valuable. It does not matter right now at there age if they have 1 or 2 ranking points. A lot of countries like spain the players learn the games in these qualifying draws rather than playing juniors, and that hasnt worked out too badly for them!!
Already this trip has been a mini success, we have had some main draw qualfiers, this means a number of matches has been won. I deem this much more benefical in the long run, than entering a weak futures event winning 1 match in qualifying and already be in the main draw
I have not posted in a fair while but I felt the need to weigh in on this debate as I have very strong feelings about it.
First of all, the decison to send these players out for this trip to Spain is an absolutly rotten one. The opinion that our players need more experience on clay is an outdated one. This may have been the case 10-15 years ago but not now - our players play on clay as much as the do on hard. And the recent results of Alex Ward, Morgan Phillips and Dan Smethurst on the surface are testament to this.
Also, to say that ranking points at this stage are a bonus and the all round development of the players is more important is also quite naive. These players are our top 1992s and have 5 world ranking points between them. These players are in serious danger of falling behind their peers from other countries. For example, Spain's Javier Marti is also a 1992 and is ranked 792 in the world. Although an excellent player, Marti is hardly considered a 'super talent' in the mold of Dmitrov and Tomic. In my opinion, and having seen all of the British lads play, if they are to keep up with their peers they need to be ranked around the 1100 mark already at the very least. This is not too much to ask, they are good enough players.
I also do not understand the thinking that ranking points should come at the detrement of player development. There are enough Futures around the world where the standard would not be as tough as these tournaments so players could gain valuable ranking points, and still develop as players but in more acceptable circumstances. My suggestion would be a trip to Mexico - the standard is good but not outstanding, the players would be facing legitimate 950ish ranked players in the first rounds after qualifying through a 45 draw qualifying.
This whole trip is typical of of the lack of understanding that the LTA have and one of the main reasons why we fail to convert juniors into seniors. They have been doing this sort of thing for years and are obviously still doing it now. I said to a friend at the start of this trip that I would bet that not one of the 1992s or 1993s picks up a single ranking point in this trip. Unless someone does this week I will have been correct. So in essence what is the point of the trip if nobody picks up any points? They might as well have played the British Futures.
Its good to have some healthy debate Court Crazy (It certainly makes the day at work go faster!!!) however I think we may have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Personally I think until a player is 18 and classed as a senior, rankings are a bonus and not the issue. Between 16-18 development is the key. We both agree Britian have problems converting good juniors into seniors. However in my eyes sending them to Spain helps this development, they play against Spainish men who probably while dont have their potential know their game and how to play to it.
Another issue is the difference between 1,500 and 800 in the world in terms of points really is not that big, One good week and players can get up to this rating fairly swiftly.
One final thought to consider. If we do get no ranking points, could it just be a case of right now the players arent good enough, maybe they will never become good enough. But the key to this trip for me is the experience it provides
Its interesting how we both differ so much on the issue of trying to progress from juniors to seniors. What do other people think?
Interesting debate, in which I find myself very largely on mikevo's' side.
I only wish our players were more grounded in clay court tennis like Andy Murray was, not just for future clay court success but I believe a lot of early relentless practice on the surface ultimately enhances the greater array and sheer consistency of groundstrokes needed in the game today.
GB in general still has far too many hit and hopers that have played too big a part of their early career on fast couirts and grass.
Phillips, Smethurst and Ward ( to a far lesser extent ) have indeed achieved some results in futures, but they are much in a minority.
And in any case, as I say I just think more clay court tennis is in itself beneficial to development overall..
I can see some arguement that some ranking points may be beneficial, but so very much is player development at this stage and to me they are both likely to get more matches in the big Spanish futures and will play on a very good surface for them that in general they need more expertience of.
Add that to the different variety of opponent likely to be encountered and surely far more valuable than a British Future
If they are good enough, the ranking points will come in time without chasing away seeking the odd one or 2 ranking pints in the weakest place you can find.
The LTA gets criticised a lot ( including by me ) but here to my mind is good use being made of resources that many other countries can only envy.
It is then up to the playersthemselves to put in the work, learn from the expreience and do all they personally can to be all they can be, to mactch others that have less assistance.
Omg, Dobby's only gone and won again. To put it into context, Nebolsin is a 17-year-old who had never won more than 3 games in a set in Futures qualifying before, but hey, a win's a win, and that's 3 in his last 14 Futures qualifying singles matches!
QR1: DEE, Robert UNR beat NEBOLSIN, Yury (RUS) UNR by 7-6(5) 7-5
Meanwhile, Nikki Roenn (who has a 5-29 record in Futures) was on the right side of a double bagel against an Aussie - and it as an Aussie who actually beat someone earlier this month - Jorge Cadona, who was on the receiving end today, beat the brilliantly named Phillip Antonio Cartagena Ironmonger (sic) a couple of weeks ago.
I haven't got time to add the other results right now, but I'll do them later if nobody gets in first.
-- Edited by steven on Friday 30th of October 2009 06:24:40 PM
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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!
I find it a bit odd to plan such a trip when there have been British Futures events, a similar squad/camp could have been held at those.
Outside of that, taking a young group of players to experience this sort of highly competitive event, alongside the sort of player that in the past has left them behind over a career I think is an excellent idea. As long as its not being used a jolly, this trip should work for the yopungster on many levels. At this age, I dont really give a damn how many ranking points they are picking up, its the sort of player they become in a few years time that counts.
QR2: DEE, Robert UNR v BANKOV, Evgeniy (BUL) UNR QR2: CARPENTER, Jack WR 1721 v (11) PEREVOSHCHIKOV, Dmitri (RUS) WR 1239 QR2: MORGAN, George UNR v ORDEIG, Roger (ESP) UNR QR2: WEBB, Oliver UNR v MORENTE-GEMAS, Ignacio (ESP) UNR (CH 1485) QR2: ROENN, Nikki UNR v (13) DORFLER, Matthias (GER) WR 1317 QR2: GOLDING, Oliver WR 1721 v GARCIA FERRANDEZ, Sergio (ESP) UNR QR2: (14) HEWITT, Ashley WR 1412 v GOR COSTALES, Pablo (ESP) UNR QR2: BURTON, Lewis UNR v GUAITA-PAIS, Enric (ESP) UNR (CH 1341) QR2: GABB, Richard WR 1670 v (16) MONTANES-ROCA, Francesc (ESP) WR 1517
I am falling down on the side of the LTA on this one.
I can see nothing wrong with this idea on the premise that this part of a player development program. Collecting a ranking point or two would be welcomed but not the key object.
They are being sent to one of the most successful tennis playing countries in the world on a surface which accounts for more than half of the senior ITF/ATP tour events combined.
These young guys are out there on merit. They have either met or exceeded their year goals so far to qualify for the trip.
They will benefit from...
* The experience of playing in senior competition * The experience of playing on a key surface. Most of them will favour other surfaces. * Team building is always enhanced during 'away' trips. * Dedicated coaches on hand for match evaluation * The opportunity to see how the 'Spanish' do it ! * Being in Spain at this time of year helps extend their outdoor season.
I am cynical of the LTA and how they operate at times and perhaps I am giving them some 'grace' in this but I can see the potential benefits. As long as they work hard and put in the effort and time out there then fair enough.
QR2: DEE, Robert lost to BANKOV, Evgeniy (BUL) 4-6 4-6 QR2: CARPENTER, Jack def. (11) PEREVOSHCHIKOV, Dmitri (RUS) 6-4 6-3 QR2: MORGAN, George def. ORDEIG, Roger (ESP) 6-0 6-2 QR2: WEBB, Oliver lost to MORENTE-GEMAS, Ignacio (ESP) 3-6 0-6 QR2: ROENN, Nikki lost to (13) DORFLER, Matthias (GER) 3-6 2-6 QR2: GOLDING, Oliver def. GARCIA FERRANDEZ, Sergio (ESP) 6-1 6-0 QR2: (14) HEWITT, Ashley def. GOR COSTALES, Pablo (ESP) 6-1 6-2 QR2: BURTON, Lewis def. GUAITA, Enric (ESP) 6-4 6-0 QR2: GABB, Richard lost to (16) MONTANES-ROCA, Francesc (ESP) 3-6 6-7 (2)