Week 16 - ATP Masters 1000 - Monte-Carlo (clay)

Jaffa · Challenger level

Week 16 - ATP Masters 1000 - Monte-Carlo (clay)

Jan · Hall of fame

cry cry

indiana · Tennis legend

Bah pity, especially with LL Garcia-Lopez waiting in R2

Certainly shouldn't have been running out of steam physically.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Top 20 player he is they said... Clay Court specialist they said....

Reality check for a few here, Kyle is still some distance away from being anywhere near challenging for top honours. The fortuitous Oz Semi Final run may actually turn out to have had a negative effect in terms of realising where your game is. Reality is somewhere between top Challenger/ATP250. No higher at the moment.

indiana · Tennis legend

Let the season properly unfold. And overall it's been very good so far, however one views the Australian Open run, which to me undoubtably had some good performances in it.

Whatever some of our doubts I am sure we all hope things do come together for Kyle during the 3 Slams and 6 Masters events plus such other tournaments he competes in during the great bulk of the year still to come.

Yes, there may come a time when he will need to start backing up the Australian Open points but that is no particular concern still less than 3 months since that event.

By the way, Jaggy, hopefully you read my previous post near the end of he Marrakech thread and are more understanding of the doubts I have had myself over the last few years. Just ask Oakie

For now though I'm holding a bit of a watching brief, trying not to get too up or down with individual weeks. There were for me encouraging aspects from that Aussie Open beyond just the actual results.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

And there was me thinking reality was no. 23 in the world at the tender age of 23. Those are facts not opinions and I think we have argued to death the concept of year on year improvement, there will be ups and downs, generally being a good thing.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Yes Indiana and apologies for not replying, makes sense now indeed. Watching brief is probably wise at the moment, likewise with Cam when he makes his way up the rankings followed no doubt by Jay. I think we are all so desperate for success to replace Andy that some get carried away. In that regard lets all hope for a fit and healthy successful return for Andy as we certainly need it. And Dan as well, for me he would be top 20 now had he kept better company.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Indie you definitely had your doubts. I am a fan of Kyles view ie. looking back on each season working out what needs to change and then trying to do something about it. He has insight into his strengths and weaknesses and keeps working on them, he hasnt hesitated to make changes in the past when things arent working.

Not being the Man U/Liverpool/Man City/ Arsenal/ Chelsea supporting type and I understand the frustrations of those who are I think it is important to enjoy his whole tennis journey, he is no Federer/Novak or Rafa never the less he stands a good chance of being a top ten player and having some success on clay at a high level. We can reflect on that at the end of his career bit early to write him off.

Jaggy1876 · Grand Slam Champion

Its not a case of writing anyone off, its more a case of being realistic based on the facts and performances at the current time. At the moment there isnt anything to suggest a player thats going to win tournaments and its wise to reflect that. Plenty time to congratulate and admire when the level is reached rather than get carried away and biased. Hes got 10 years ahead plenty of time to improve and he will need to, the current level will not win ATP events or bother top tournaments on a regular basis. And sadly for Kyle the British public wont see much as his grass game is very limited.

JonH · All-time great

Whilst disappointed with kyles results on Sunday and today, it is worth considering that he isn't that out of kilter with others eg

Tenys Sandgren, similar results at AO. Reached final last week albeit in Houston. Went out first round today to Kohlschreiber, like seppi an experienced guy. V similar pattern.

Lucas Pouille is 7th seed, two weeks back he played amazing fighting tennis to help France beat Fognini and seppi in genoa, today lost first round to mitscha zverev.

They are all up and down currently and at end of day, main currency is points. At year end it doesnt matter if you get 2000 in one go and 19 events are non score events or you score 100 points per event, you still get 2000. Kyle is 23Rd in ranks and top 8 this season. Could he do better - yes. Is he anywhere near a consistent top performer- no. But the exciting thing is he can do it and we can look forward to seeing him do it more often.

Smudge226 · Strong Club Player

There will be a watershed moment I believe when eventually he prevails in a tourney final.

indiana · Tennis legend

Smudge226 wrote:
There will be a watershed moment I believe when eventually he prevails in a tourney final.

Possibly. Anyway he's only ever lost one ATP tour final, reaching that first one err last week so bit early for an "eventually"

Don't worry, if he makes a big habit of losing finals ( and good if he gets to many more ) I'll probably mention it as I have mentioned other little sequences. But for now reached one, not played well on the day, is hardly any trend to suggest that he isn't going to win finals in the future in spite of Jaggy's comments above.

I sometimes have wondered re Kyle in big matches but on the final thing I most certainly give him a break for now.

JonH · All-time great

Let's also remember he's got no clay pedigree at all and whilst it may suit his game, he's got to learn how to play it. Seppi and andujar are brought up on the stuff. This season is a learning one on clay. He's missing Barcelona next week, regroup and then Estoril, Madrid and Rome. Is he playing week before Paris?

-- Edited by JonH on Tuesday 17th of April 2018 08:49:59 PM

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

indiana wrote:
Maybe as suggested in the entries thread Cam just didn't think he'd make it into qualifying so made alternative arrangements. But it always seemed pretty possible. I think he's made perhaps a couple of other interesting choices and/or misjudgements fairly recently.

Cam was interestingly playing for Roehampton in Aegon Team Tennis on Sunday. Except it's not Aegon Team Tennis anymore just "Team Tennis". Oli Golding, Matt Short and Anton Matusevich were also playing and beat Cumberland 10-2.

indiana · Tennis legend

Born2WinTennis wrote:
indiana wrote:
Maybe as suggested in the entries thread Cam just didn't think he'd make it into qualifying so made alternative arrangements. But it always seemed pretty possible. I think he's made perhaps a couple of other interesting choices and/or misjudgements fairly recently.
Cam was interestingly playing for Roehampton in Aegon Team Tennis on Sunday. Except it's not Aegon Team Tennis anymore just "Team Tennis". Oli Golding, Matt Short and Anton Matusevich were also playing and beat Cumberland 10-2.

I doubt Cam will be as high up the lists for Madrid and Rome as he was for the non mandatory Monte Carlo. But apparently fit and well has chosen to miss that possible experience. And as it transpired would have been an actual experience.