Wimbledon

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

RE: Wimbledon

dodrade · Satellite level

JonH comes home wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Not sure it's been mentioned (and should it be here?) but the Russian/Belorussian ban has been lifted
Has it? Andy was speculating it might be. Has it been confirmed?

No official announcement yet but it has been widely trailed in the media so little reason to doubt it.

Strongbow · All-time great

Keep your chin up - but don't lead with it smile

indiana · Tennis legend

Seems inevitable. But it will take some selling if true! - probably best not to even try

No winners. Just extricating themselves from the mess they unilaterally put themselves in.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

It seems it is done in all but name if the Mail carries it

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-11836709/Wimbledon-cave-pressure-lift-ban-Russian-players.html

Im planning to get my ilkley tickets next week and had hoped it was clear by then - if they sell tickets, Russians stay banned, what happens to ilkley and the like? Presumably if they start selling tickets next week, as planned, they will be confident it will happen?

Still not sure of my thoughts on this and Russians playing but it is what it is

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

This was two days ago

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-11836709/Wimbledon-cave-pressure-lift-ban-Russian-players.html

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just crossed with Jon

But, yes, I read that as definite

But, true, it's just the Mail I shouldn't have posted it as 'fact'

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Friday 10th of March 2023 07:28:06 AM

GAMEOVER · Pro player

Mike Dickson seems to be busy writing about the Ukraine and Wimbledon in the last couple of days. One article is headed "Tennis should be ashamed as Ukraine loses a friend. " The other was a big article about Elina Svitolina and her horror at Wimbledon lifting the ban on Russia and Belarus players. Has Svitolina ever called for a similar ban in Paris and the French Championships? After all her husband is French. If the Ukraine players don't want to play Russians why did Dayana Yastremska play in the Netherlands last year where she played a Russian in the 1st round instead of Nottingham the same week where there no Russians. What was gained by ban? A huge fine for the LTA ,a distorted ranking list and the possible disappearance of major grass tournaments in the UK. Svitolina says the war has brought Ukrainian players together. Yet last summer some of the Ukrainian tennis players in writing were calling for the head of Ukrainian tennis to be sacked and others wanted him to stay. On tennis forum before the war, Yastremska was probably the most disliked player. What happens if the fighting goes on for another 10 years?

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

GAMEOVER wrote:
Mike Dickson seems to be busy writing about the Ukraine and Wimbledon in the last couple of days. One article is headed "Tennis should be ashamed as Ukraine loses a friend. " The other was a big article about Elina Svitolina and her horror at Wimbledon lifting the ban on Russia and Belarus players. Has Svitolina ever called for a similar ban in Paris and the French Championships? After all her husband is French. If the Ukraine players don't want to play Russians why did Dayana Yastremska play in the Netherlands last year where she played a Russian in the 1st round instead of Nottingham the same week where there no Russians. What was gained by ban? A huge fine for the LTA ,a distorted ranking list and the possible disappearance of major grass tournaments in the UK. Svitolina says the war has brought Ukrainian players together. Yet last summer some of the Ukrainian tennis players in writing were calling for the head of Ukrainian tennis to be sacked and others wanted him to stay. On tennis forum before the war, Yastremska was probably the most disliked player. What happens if the fighting goes on for another 10 years?

GAMEOVER, I have to say that I find this post a difficult one to read (I've tempered my words there). Your forensic questioning seems to be aimed squarely at the Ukranian players, and at the LTA who have shown support to them, and to Ukraine. Let's not forget who are the victims here, that is the Ukrainian people, every one of them (including tennis players). Citing individual Ukranian player's actions (when they are in a very difficult situation, not of their own making) as evidence of double standards, is an unreasonable tack to take.

In the absence, of a World government, political change is effected at the national level. That is why we have the UN council (United Nations). Russia is the aggressor nation, and by definition it's population is complicit. It isn't a matter of individual choice.

You could just as equally ask, what was consequences of the WTA / ATP allowing Russian players to participate on the tour as if it was business as usual. Did it contribute (a little bit) towards the reinforcement of the population's view of the current regime's policies in Russia?

Why, then are the majority of the UN following a different course, and imposing major sanctions on Russia for it's actions, sanctions that bite the whole population there.

As for the fine on the LTA, has even a penny of it been paid, and what does it matter anyway? The stance is a point of principle. It is the WTA / ATP leadership who are the source of the trivial organisational difficulties in tennis, not the LTA or the Ukrainian players.

GAMEOVER · Pro player

foobarbaz wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Mike Dickson seems to be busy writing about the Ukraine and Wimbledon in the last couple of days. One article is headed "Tennis should be ashamed as Ukraine loses a friend. " The other was a big article about Elina Svitolina and her horror at Wimbledon lifting the ban on Russia and Belarus players. Has Svitolina ever called for a similar ban in Paris and the French Championships? After all her husband is French. If the Ukraine players don't want to play Russians why did Dayana Yastremska play in the Netherlands last year where she played a Russian in the 1st round instead of Nottingham the same week where there no Russians. What was gained by ban? A huge fine for the LTA ,a distorted ranking list and the possible disappearance of major grass tournaments in the UK. Svitolina says the war has brought Ukrainian players together. Yet last summer some of the Ukrainian tennis players in writing were calling for the head of Ukrainian tennis to be sacked and others wanted him to stay. On tennis forum before the war, Yastremska was probably the most disliked player. What happens if the fighting goes on for another 10 years?
GAMEOVER, I have to say that I find this post a difficult one to read (I've tempered my words there). Your forensic questioning seems to be aimed squarely at the Ukranian players, and at the LTA who have shown support to them, and to Ukraine. Let's not forget who are the victims here, that is the Ukrainian people, every one of them (including tennis players). Citing individual Ukranian player's actions (when they are in a very difficult situation, not of their own making) as evidence of double standards, is an unreasonable tack to take.
In the absence, of a World government, political change is effected at the national level. That is why we have the UN council (United Nations). Russia is the aggressor nation, and by definition it's population is complicit. It isn't a matter of individual choice.
You could just as equally ask, what was consequences of the WTA / ATP allowing Russian players to participate on the tour as if it was business as usual. Did it contribute (a little bit) towards the reinforcement of the population's view of the current regime's policies in Russia?
Why, then are the majority of the UN following a different course, and imposing major sanctions on Russia for it's actions, sanctions that bite the whole population there.
As for the fine on the LTA, has even a penny of it been paid, and what does it matter anyway? The stance is a point of principle. It is the WTA / ATP leadership who are the source of the trivial organisational difficulties in tennis, not the LTA or the Ukrainian players.

The Russian people have been victims as well with no choice about being conscripted and a huge loss of their own people. I'm not anti Ukraine but I'm not in favour in Britain being involved in a war in what was not essentially anything to do with us. Ukraine was never part of the British Empire. It was a good distraction for Boris Johnson .Putin regards us as a little island that nobody listens to. Not sure if Mike Dickson's opinion in his last couple of articles(which I was irritated with) isn't following his editors wishes. Tournaments going abroad if GB loses the licences is a blow to the economies of the towns/cities holding the tournaments. Both Rybakina and Putintseva were born in Moscow became Kazaks so somehow it is okay for them to play. Best leave this and see if our players can continue their wins in Indian Wells. One out of Andy or Jack will.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

GAMEOVER wrote:
foobarbaz wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Mike Dickson seems to be busy writing about the Ukraine and Wimbledon in the last couple of days. One article is headed "Tennis should be ashamed as Ukraine loses a friend. " The other was a big article about Elina Svitolina and her horror at Wimbledon lifting the ban on Russia and Belarus players. Has Svitolina ever called for a similar ban in Paris and the French Championships? After all her husband is French. If the Ukraine players don't want to play Russians why did Dayana Yastremska play in the Netherlands last year where she played a Russian in the 1st round instead of Nottingham the same week where there no Russians. What was gained by ban? A huge fine for the LTA ,a distorted ranking list and the possible disappearance of major grass tournaments in the UK. Svitolina says the war has brought Ukrainian players together. Yet last summer some of the Ukrainian tennis players in writing were calling for the head of Ukrainian tennis to be sacked and others wanted him to stay. On tennis forum before the war, Yastremska was probably the most disliked player. What happens if the fighting goes on for another 10 years?
GAMEOVER, I have to say that I find this post a difficult one to read (I've tempered my words there). Your forensic questioning seems to be aimed squarely at the Ukranian players, and at the LTA who have shown support to them, and to Ukraine. Let's not forget who are the victims here, that is the Ukrainian people, every one of them (including tennis players). Citing individual Ukranian player's actions (when they are in a very difficult situation, not of their own making) as evidence of double standards, is an unreasonable tack to take.
In the absence, of a World government, political change is effected at the national level. That is why we have the UN council (United Nations). Russia is the aggressor nation, and by definition it's population is complicit. It isn't a matter of individual choice.
You could just as equally ask, what was consequences of the WTA / ATP allowing Russian players to participate on the tour as if it was business as usual. Did it contribute (a little bit) towards the reinforcement of the population's view of the current regime's policies in Russia?
Why, then are the majority of the UN following a different course, and imposing major sanctions on Russia for it's actions, sanctions that bite the whole population there.
As for the fine on the LTA, has even a penny of it been paid, and what does it matter anyway? The stance is a point of principle. It is the WTA / ATP leadership who are the source of the trivial organisational difficulties in tennis, not the LTA or the Ukrainian players.

The Russian people have been victims as well with no choice about being conscripted and a huge loss of their own people. I'm not anti Ukraine but I'm not in favour in Britain being involved in a war in what was not essentially anything to do with us. Ukraine was never part of the British Empire. It was a good distraction for Boris Johnson .Putin regards us as a little island that nobody listens to. Not sure if Mike Dickson's opinion in his last couple of articles(which I was irritated with) isn't following his editors wishes. Tournaments going abroad if GB loses the licences is a blow to the economies of the towns/cities holding the tournaments. Both Rybakina and Putintseva were born in Moscow became Kazaks so somehow it is okay for them to play. Best leave this and see if our players can continue their wins in Indian Wells. One out of Andy or Jack will.

I find that disingenuous, to say the least.

If you elect a leader, and turn a blind eye when that leader imposes himself, with hardly any protests, demonstrations, or uprisings, then you are passively accepting of that regime.

And I realise that it is risky for people to protest.

But look at what the women in Iran are doing.

And many others.

Russia's losses are caused by the actions of Russia's government, which is there with the complicit agreement of the majority of its people.

(And please note that I have a fair few Russian friends and work with a larger number of Russia clients. And I have said the same to them. Despite the reactions. As a couple of very old 'friends' are convinced that the invasion was justified and that they are the victims in this affair)

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

GAMEOVER wrote:
foobarbaz wrote:
GAMEOVER wrote:
Mike Dickson seems to be busy writing about the Ukraine and Wimbledon in the last couple of days. One article is headed "Tennis should be ashamed as Ukraine loses a friend. " The other was a big article about Elina Svitolina and her horror at Wimbledon lifting the ban on Russia and Belarus players. Has Svitolina ever called for a similar ban in Paris and the French Championships? After all her husband is French. If the Ukraine players don't want to play Russians why did Dayana Yastremska play in the Netherlands last year where she played a Russian in the 1st round instead of Nottingham the same week where there no Russians. What was gained by ban? A huge fine for the LTA ,a distorted ranking list and the possible disappearance of major grass tournaments in the UK. Svitolina says the war has brought Ukrainian players together. Yet last summer some of the Ukrainian tennis players in writing were calling for the head of Ukrainian tennis to be sacked and others wanted him to stay. On tennis forum before the war, Yastremska was probably the most disliked player. What happens if the fighting goes on for another 10 years?
GAMEOVER, I have to say that I find this post a difficult one to read (I've tempered my words there). Your forensic questioning seems to be aimed squarely at the Ukranian players, and at the LTA who have shown support to them, and to Ukraine. Let's not forget who are the victims here, that is the Ukrainian people, every one of them (including tennis players). Citing individual Ukranian player's actions (when they are in a very difficult situation, not of their own making) as evidence of double standards, is an unreasonable tack to take.
In the absence, of a World government, political change is effected at the national level. That is why we have the UN council (United Nations). Russia is the aggressor nation, and by definition it's population is complicit. It isn't a matter of individual choice.
You could just as equally ask, what was consequences of the WTA / ATP allowing Russian players to participate on the tour as if it was business as usual. Did it contribute (a little bit) towards the reinforcement of the population's view of the current regime's policies in Russia?
Why, then are the majority of the UN following a different course, and imposing major sanctions on Russia for it's actions, sanctions that bite the whole population there.
As for the fine on the LTA, has even a penny of it been paid, and what does it matter anyway? The stance is a point of principle. It is the WTA / ATP leadership who are the source of the trivial organisational difficulties in tennis, not the LTA or the Ukrainian players.

The Russian people have been victims as well with no choice about being conscripted and a huge loss of their own people. I'm not anti Ukraine but I'm not in favour in Britain being involved in a war in what was not essentially anything to do with us. Ukraine was never part of the British Empire. It was a good distraction for Boris Johnson .Putin regards us as a little island that nobody listens to. Not sure if Mike Dickson's opinion in his last couple of articles(which I was irritated with) isn't following his editors wishes. Tournaments going abroad if GB loses the licences is a blow to the economies of the towns/cities holding the tournaments. Both Rybakina and Putintseva were born in Moscow became Kazaks so somehow it is okay for them to play. Best leave this and see if our players can continue their wins in Indian Wells. One out of Andy or Jack will.

GAMEOVER, I reckon you've been spending too much time in Jeremy's cabbage patch reading Momentum's propaganda leaflets. You obviously have no inkling of the precarious position the world order is in right now.

Let me float a few ideas your way :

1. Russia gains complete control of the Black Sea coastline, and the Black Sea ceases to be international waters.

2. Russia (with it's fleet / jets), and three main allies in the region, gain control of the Eastern Med (Suez, shipping)

3. The oil fields of Saudi Arabia are next in line.

4. The West is starved of energy, China is given cheap fuel, and support for it's own expansionism.

5. Australia with it's massive natural resources is the obvious target.

6. Global shipping lanes are controlled by the Russia-China pact.

7. When the climate warming becomes critical, the western populations will be at further risk from oppression.

Meanwhile, in Britain 10 years from now the Left are still banging on about the Empire, and Boris, and cheering for Gary, and saying it'll be alright on the night.

GAMEOVER · Pro player

Foobarbaz it's the first time anybody has suggested that I am a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn and Momentum. Although we might be better off if we had followed his views on invading Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan etc.. As for Wimbledon what was achieved by banning Russians and Belarus in 2022 . We showed our support to Ukraine for the fortnight and and that was it. What is achieved by doing the same thing again this year? Don't forget Ukraine is riddled with corruption which is what Zelensky was elected to deal with in 2019.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I don't think anyone was fervently disagreeing with your opinion about Wimbledon - it's very grey, IMO. You make a decent point - it's not obvious.

I was ferevently disagreeing with your opnion about Russians being as much victims in this war as Ukranians

They're not - and come corruption is not an excuse to invade, kill, rape and maim civilians (or even miltary personnel, IMO).

And are you trying to tell me that the corruption in Ukraine is worse than the corruption in Russia? Honestly, I would splutter my coffee all over the keyboard.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
I don't think anyone was fervently disagreeing with your opinion about Wimbledon - it's very grey, IMO. You make a decent point - it's not obvious.

I was ferevently disagreeing with your opnion about Russians being as much victims in this war as Ukranians

They're not - and come corruption is not an excuse to invade, kill, rape and maim civilians (or even miltary personnel, IMO).

And are you trying to tell me that the corruption in Ukraine is worse than the corruption in Russia? Honestly, I would splutter my coffee all over the keyboard.

I was going to type something very similar to all of this CD, but you did it much better than me!

So...this (as they say).